Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
|
Post by Bigman80 on Sept 6, 2022 19:41:18 GMT
There isn't much that tempts me to get in the car and travel to listen to people's systems these days, but one piece of kit caught my eye a while ago now. A set of ETKA speakers, designed by Troels Gravessen and built by our very own Rocklard (Jason), stood out to me as a potential journey worth making. After a few weeks of talking to Jason, his passion for speaker building and HiFi became clear. Numerous Whatsapp messages were exchanged, and an invite was extended to visit his home and put these ETKA to the test. Troels has a superb reputation for speaker design, and not having the requisite skill to make these up myself, the chance to hear a pair and see if the “legend” is true, was too good an opportunity to turn down. As part of our message chain, Jason also expressed an interest in listening to the SP10, PMAT-1010MK8SE, the BT2, Avalon and 686….literally all of my system lol. So, I packed the lot into the car at 06:00 and set of to the Peak District. Upon entering the listening room, the Etka stood proudly. Their finish is clearly the result of hours of passion and attention. They are quite the sight in the flesh. I had a look at Jason's system. A Rega R8 with Cadenza Black cart sat at the top of the rack, his BB3 below. Then the Musical Fidelity P-100 and a Musical Fidelity Dual Mono Power amp, the number of which I forget. Jason explained that pre and power has received copious amounts of upgrades from John Sampson(?) so are not to be taken as stock when referring to performance. I could see a pair of Clearer Audio RCA cables, and a pair of Chord speaker cables. (oh no! lol) We listened to a couple of tracks via Jasons new “Arke” standmounts and swapped the speaker cables and preamp into the system. As the speakers are still undergoing final revisions, I don't feel it’s fair to talk about them in specifics, but I will say that the speakers demonstrated a large difference in SQ when the Chord cables were removed and some OCC ones i had taken with me took their place. This is a very positive result. The Preamp change from ML P-100 to BT2 was, IMO, also quite significant, but Jason Struggled a little to adjust from the presentation of the P100 to the BT2. At this point we swapped to the ETKA. My feeling being that in order to give components (that are being compared) the best opportunity, the best speakers in the room should be used. Jason agreed and we swapped to the EKTA. Pretty quickly I started to feel like I was listening to a very good speaker. There were a couple of niggles. In listening to Eva Cassidy, the applause was a little congested. A little squashed and her vocals were in Jason's words “making me uncomfortable” I didn’t disagree. We then listened to GoGo Penguin. The name of the track escapes me, but it is essentially a Jazz track with Piano, Drums and double bass. The track was sounding pretty good apart from some edginess in the HF. We listened to it and where the track got complex, there was a little congestion. At this point I asked if we could put the 686 in. We did. We played the same track and IMO things started to improve. Less congestion, less mush in the busy sections, but still not quite where I had hoped the speakers would get us to. Sure, there was more resolution, transparency, refinement etc, but that bit of magic that gets the hairs standing on end was alluding us. The open window was still closed. I think the next thing we swapped was the TT. The SP10 and new PMAT-1010 MK8SE went in and pretty much lit this system up. The SP10 and MK8SE arm blew the soundstage wide open and the transparency and resolution went up in orders of magnitude IMO. But it was the last piece of the puzzle that really brought this system to a point where i was sitting up and taking notice. I had taken a pair of PC-Triple C cables with me. I asked where to fit them into the system and noticed a ribbon style cable. I asked if that was a Nordorst cable? It was…. Out it came and in went the PC-Triple C……OMFG! Gone was that edginess that had niggled all the way through. Gone was the slightly lean (noticed by Jason early on) tonality. Totally removed. What we had now was a literal show stopping sound. The Etkas, playing the same GoGo Penguin track again, now sounded SOOOOOOO refined. There was absolutely no strain, no enhanced edginess, no congestion or LF mush. It absolutely sounded the best it had so far. The Etka then got put through a serious run of test tracks. “Hans Theessink and Terry Evans”: The vocals….OMG the vocals! Hans Theessink growling out the lyrics was utterly spine tingling. Thee vocal chords vibrate and rhasped and this was delivered with unerring solidity. The guitar was pin sharp, distortion free and the tonality was possibly perfect. Am i mad? I could be getting carried away tbf, but it was amazingly pure. Crisp and clean, but natural. Not a hint of artifice of limitation on what you could hear. The window was now wide open, laying in the garden and the wall had been removed. I got goosebumps. We played Sera Una Noche and the soundstaging, nuances and acoustic cues were delivered from a soundstage that no longer had any attachment to the speaker's physical form. I have said for a long time that the better the speakers are, the less the sound clings to them and the EKTA gave free flight to sound. We played a few tracks that Jason knew well and comments like “i have never heard my speakers sound like this” were uttered to each other. We then dropped Eva Cassidy back on. I think we listened to the whole of side three. The last track being a particularly poignant one, Tall Trees in Georgia. Wow.....just wow. Jason mentioned that if you can feel the emotion of a song like that, you cannot be far off. He was right. The emotion and sincerity of the track flowed into the room and onward into the soul like as effortless as sunshine through a window. It was beautiful. Jason then added his sub into the mix. I will admit, I am not a fan of subs and have never believed they can work or integrate seamlessly into a system. WRONG! The SUB improved everything, absolutely everything we were already gushing about. Turn the sub off and the sound suddenly recessed into a flatter soundstage with a leaner presentation. It was mind boggling. I can now absolutely see the merit of what this could bring to a system. In conclusion, I have to say that the system we ended up at, basically mine with Jasons BB3 and Speakers, is one of the most impressive sounds i have heard anywhere. The ETKA delivers solidity, precision, naturalism, accuracy, transparency, scale (for their size) power, heft (for their size) and best of all, a performance I could, and would listen to for hours on end with a smug look on my face. DIY has offered the best bang for buck in every other part of my system, so today should have come as no surprise. Troels reputation is now on very good footing with me, and Jasons work is absolutely stunning. The Etka are coming here for a few days in the very near future. If they work here, they will not be leaving. Anyone considering a pair of speakers would be very wise to see what Jason could offer from the Troels catalogue. It would be money well spent! Pair of Q Acoustic 500s anyone?
|
|
|
Post by pete on Sept 6, 2022 19:51:24 GMT
Wow, what a stunning review Oliver, detailed, entertaining and informative, all at the same time. It seems that these speakers that Jason has put together so beautifully, and with such care, really are something special.
I wonder how they might sound on the end of my system?? ;0)
Thanks for taking the time to write this up, brilliant.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
|
Post by Bigman80 on Sept 6, 2022 20:12:59 GMT
Wow, what a stunning review Oliver, detailed, entertaining and informative, all at the same time. It seems that these speakers that Jason has put together so beautifully, and with such care, really are something special. I wonder how they might sound on the end of my system?? ;0) Thanks for taking the time to write this up, brilliant. Thanks Pete. I think you can rest assured that your head may fall off like mine did lol
|
|
|
Post by gninnam on Sept 6, 2022 20:24:16 GMT
Great read and so pleased for Jason on what he has created. WOuld love to hear these in my system but I know the room would work against them - perhaps the stand mounts might work?
|
|
Arke
Moderator
Posts: 1,259
|
Post by Arke on Sept 6, 2022 20:28:54 GMT
Amazing write up, thanks Oli.
Really appreciate you taking the time to drive over and bring most of your stereo!
I knew the Ektas were good, but your TT, arm, pre, power and cables shed a whole new light on things... I've still got goosebumps thinking about the system we eventually put together!
For those wondering: The Arke standmounts didn't get much use, as Oli mainly came to hear the Ektas. The Arkes need a bit more running in before any critical appraisal.
[my pre is a musical fidelity Xp100, power is a musical fidelity a3.2cr - both upgraded by JS Audio]
Gogo Penguin track was Strid.
|
|
Arke
Moderator
Posts: 1,259
|
Post by Arke on Sept 6, 2022 20:35:32 GMT
Great read and so pleased for Jason on what he has created. WOuld love to hear these in my system but I know the room would work against them - perhaps the stand mounts might work? How big is your room? The standmounts weren't ready for critical appraisal as more breaking in is required. I hope to get them ready for head to heads and demos very soon. Troels does do a standmount design which is more akin to the Ekta mkIIs (my floorstanders). These are the illuminator 71. They must be good as Troels has a pair he built and uses personally. They use similar drivers to my Floorstanders, but are 2 ways.
|
|
optical
Moderator
BIG STAR
Be Excellent To Eachother
Posts: 1,623
Member is Online
|
Post by optical on Sept 6, 2022 20:39:25 GMT
Superb stuff all round. Well done chaps.
As I try and tell everyone, until you've heard a properly integrated sub (or two) in your system, you've not really heard it at its best.
Very interesting to see these developments.
|
|
|
Post by stevew on Sept 6, 2022 20:39:54 GMT
Excellent and informative write up Oliver. Sadly my little virus friend looks like he’s only saying cheerio today, so I’m sorry to have cried off. Looking forward to experiencing Jason’s work down the line.
|
|
Arke
Moderator
Posts: 1,259
|
Post by Arke on Sept 6, 2022 20:49:35 GMT
Superb stuff all round. Well done chaps. As I try and tell everyone, until you've heard a properly integrated sub (or two) in your system, you've not really heard it at its best. Very interesting to see these developments. it wasn't the best demo of the sub as is wasn't set up for my speakers with different electronics. Even changing one component usually requires a tweak on the tuning and integration. However, I think Oli still got a good idea of what the sub could do. It definitely added a bit more scale and ambience and fleshed everything out more.
|
|
Arke
Moderator
Posts: 1,259
|
Post by Arke on Sept 6, 2022 20:53:25 GMT
Excellent and informative write up Oliver. Sadly my little virus friend looks like he’s only saying cheerio today, so I’m sorry to have cried off. Looking forward to experiencing Jason’s work down the line. Glad you're pretty much over it now Steve. We spent most of the day with the floorstanders, as Oli was keen to hear those. We both felt the Arke standmounts needed more running in. We can rearrange and get you a listen when it's next mutually convenient.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
|
Post by Bigman80 on Sept 6, 2022 21:08:37 GMT
Superb stuff all round. Well done chaps. As I try and tell everyone, until you've heard a properly integrated sub (or two) in your system, you've not really heard it at its best. Very interesting to see these developments. it wasn't the best demo of the sub as is wasn't set up for my speakers with different electronics. Even changing one component usually requires a tweak on the tuning and integration. However, I think Oli still got a good idea of what the sub could do. It definitely added a bit more scale and ambience and fleshed everything out more. It may not have been perfect, but it's a damn site better than I have heard previously. It wasn't noticeably audible for the majority but it's absence was easily noticed when switched off.
|
|
|
Post by gninnam on Sept 6, 2022 21:09:52 GMT
Great read and so pleased for Jason on what he has created. WOuld love to hear these in my system but I know the room would work against them - perhaps the stand mounts might work? How big is your room? The standmounts weren't ready for critical appraisal as more breaking in is required. I hope to get them ready for head to heads and demos very soon. Troels does do a standmount design which is more akin to the Ekta mkIIs (my floorstanders). These are the illuminator 71. They must be good as Troels has a pair he built and uses personally. They use similar drivers to my Floorstanders, but are 2 ways. Room is not very big - probably 2.5m x 2.8m (speakers fire down the 2.5m wall). Used Quad 12L's which worked very well but using Reiver Jenna (not many made but very well built) floor standing speakers which are front ported so can be pushed back (around 30cm from the wall) and seem to work well with the room. Not in any hurry to change yet but would be interesting to see how these designs gel with the room (and the kit obvs)
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Sept 7, 2022 4:18:37 GMT
@bigman80 Roy Gregory will be a very worried man now. Great write up and pleased you both enjoyed the day, those ETKA's certainly look the business.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
|
Post by Bigman80 on Sept 7, 2022 8:11:19 GMT
@bigman80 Roy Gregory will be a very worried man now. Great write up and pleased you both enjoyed the day, those ETKA's certainly look the business. Ha! Thanks Dave. I think lol
|
|
|
Post by macca on Sept 7, 2022 8:45:56 GMT
So one Nordost cable was ruining the whole sound? You know if it had been anything other than Nordost I don't think I would have believed it.
Great write up, I have had a listen to some Troels designs in the past (although nothing like as well-finished as these) and been impressed. He knows his stuff.
Have heard perfectly integrated subwoofers more than once, it can be done, it's just not easy.
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Sept 7, 2022 10:32:42 GMT
Yes, good write up, Oli. And congrats to Arke Audio on impressing one of the hardest folks to impress!
All this Wow, Amazing, the World Changed subwoofer fanboy stuff.... it inevitably makes me wonder about my own main system.
I've heard pretty much the same sort of improvements with a sub. But only with smallish standmount speakers.
A big sub with 'medium' bass-capable speakers (Martin Logan full range electrostatics) didn't seem to reap similar rewards. But that's rather an unusual type of hybrid setup where the presentation, capabilities and strong points of the main speakers are different to most.
The problem (?) with my current system is that my speakers give me as much deep bass as I want - significant output down to 30hz. Deeper bass is not needed for my music and it wouldn't meet with wifely approval, either.
Has anyone experience of adding a sub which doesn't provide deeper bass than the main speakers? Do benefits make themselves heard?
... Actually, reading this post, that doesn't even seem to be a sensible question!
|
|
|
Post by macca on Sept 7, 2022 10:50:30 GMT
Looking at this speaker (I think it is the same one) on the Troels site he does not mention the bass extension and he does not measure below 200Hz so I am wondering what it actually is? Given cabinet volume and the bass driver I would guess about 50Hz in room after which it will roll of steeply, being a ported design. So you might expect a sub to make a significant addition. Like I said just an educated guess maybe Jason can elucidate? EDIT - link to what I was looking at troelsgravesen.dk/Ekta.htm#Measurements:
|
|
optical
Moderator
BIG STAR
Be Excellent To Eachother
Posts: 1,623
Member is Online
|
Post by optical on Sept 7, 2022 10:53:37 GMT
Yes, good write up, Oli. And congrats to Arke Audio on impressing one of the hardest folks to impress! All this Wow, Amazing, the World Changed subwoofer fanboy stuff.... it inevitably makes me wonder about my own main system. I've heard pretty much the same sort of improvements with a sub. But only with smallish standmount speakers. A big sub with 'medium' bass-capable speakers (Martin Logan full range electrostatics) didn't seem to reap similar rewards. But that's rather an unusual type of hybrid setup where the presentation, capabilities and strong points of the main speakers are different to most. The problem (?) with my current system is that my speakers give me as much deep bass as I want - significant output down to 30hz. Deeper bass is not needed for my music and it wouldn't meet with wifely approval, either. Has anyone experience of adding a sub which doesn't provide deeper bass than the main speakers? Do benefits make themselves heard? ... Actually, reading this post, that doesn't even seem to be a sensible question! No, it's sensible enough . . . . When pairing the subwoofers with My Heco's (which get down to 18Hz in room, although realistically flat down to low 20's) there is still improvement. There are those with more knowledge on the subject than I, whom will be able to get far more technical (Rocklard for one!) but subs can be used to cancel standing waves (elevating the bass performance from your main speakers) as well as increase bass output. Bigger bass is only one function of subs, they can be used to smooth response as well as elevate the performance of nearly all speakers in my opinion. The fact you can locate them away from the main speakers and use them to combat sound issues in other areas of the room is a huge advantage. Like I say, most people don't know until they've heard. The obvious assumption is that subs just add bass, they do and they don't, or at least they don't have to if you use them in specific ways. If you're missing bass then yeah they can work but if you want to improve the bass you already hear in your system or indeed underpin what your speakers are already doing, this is where they come into their own. I've given up really trying to convince people of the above as most people (including myself to a certain point) don't really understand exactly what's going on so they have a tough time with the concept and assume subs are just for electronic music and organ music. My experience is it always sounds better when you spend some time dialing in a sub, regardless of speakers, room, system etc.
|
|
|
Post by hifinutt on Sept 7, 2022 11:12:05 GMT
forgive my ignorance if its been mentioned else where . what are PC-Triple C cables
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
|
Post by Bigman80 on Sept 7, 2022 11:37:32 GMT
So one Nordost cable was ruining the whole sound? You know if it had been anything other than Nordost I don't think I would have believed it. Great write up, I have had a listen to some Troels designs in the past (although nothing like as well-finished as these) and been impressed. He knows his stuff. Have heard perfectly integrated subwoofers more than once, it can be done, it's just not easy. It wasn't that they were totally ruining the sound, but there were frequent harsh peaks in the HF with cymbals, female vocals etc. Things hardened up a little during busy passages of music too, and i actually sat there looking at the metal tweeter thinking "is it you that's to blame?" The addition of one pair of PC-Triple C absolutely transformed that sound into a wide open, ultra refined, superbly balanced presentation with unfatiguing detail and transparency. A second pair would have taken us further again, as it has done in my system and now countless others. They are one of the few cables that seem to add the same sort of percentage of upgrade with every additional link. We could have gotten even more from the system if i had a long enough pair of PC-Triple C speaker cables. As it is, the OCC ones did really well, but i could hear the same "negative" at Jason's place, that i hear at home. However, that negative only really comes to the fore when you have PC-Triple C in the chain instead.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
|
Post by Bigman80 on Sept 7, 2022 11:42:08 GMT
Yes, good write up, Oli. And congrats to Arke Audio on impressing one of the hardest folks to impress! All this Wow, Amazing, the World Changed subwoofer fanboy stuff.... it inevitably makes me wonder about my own main system. I've heard pretty much the same sort of improvements with a sub. But only with smallish standmount speakers. A big sub with 'medium' bass-capable speakers (Martin Logan full range electrostatics) didn't seem to reap similar rewards. But that's rather an unusual type of hybrid setup where the presentation, capabilities and strong points of the main speakers are different to most. The problem (?) with my current system is that my speakers give me as much deep bass as I want - significant output down to 30hz. Deeper bass is not needed for my music and it wouldn't meet with wifely approval, either. Has anyone experience of adding a sub which doesn't provide deeper bass than the main speakers? Do benefits make themselves heard? ... Actually, reading this post, that doesn't even seem to be a sensible question! Thanks Jerry, and yes....i am STILL impressed with the speakers. I have to say, it's spun me into considering a set of Troels speaker (made by Jason) for my system. IF the ETKA don't work here, i think the next step for me will be enlisting Jason's help in working out what pair could would work and getting an absolutely top spec pair made up. Those Drivers in his ETKA are absolutely frightening. We played quite loud at one point and they barely moved. Impressive.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
|
Post by Bigman80 on Sept 7, 2022 11:42:54 GMT
|
|
Arke
Moderator
Posts: 1,259
|
Post by Arke on Sept 7, 2022 11:56:14 GMT
Looking at this speaker (I think it is the same one) on the Troels site he does not mention the bass extension and he does not measure below 200Hz so I am wondering what it actually is? Given cabinet volume and the bass driver I would guess about 50Hz in room after which it will roll of steeply, being a ported design. So you might expect a sub to make a significant addition. Like I said just an educated guess maybe Jason can elucidate? EDIT - link to what I was looking at troelsgravesen.dk/Ekta.htm#Measurements:They are the Ekta MkIIs: www.troelsgravesen.dk/EKTA-mkII.htmF3 is around 37Hz. My dominant (along length) room mode is 32Hz, so aids the speakers to give a pretty consistent response down to 30Hz. Many manufacturers quote -6db bass response and some -10db. Some do not state the dB drop, so I'm always wary of their figures. Some claim 25Hz, but it is at -10db and not stated as such. Many tailor the in-room response to give them a deeper measured bass too - for example choose a room that adds a lift to bass where the speaker is tailing off. I am extremely cautious of bass response figures - The only way to know is to use a proper mic/software with your speakers in your room. Troels generally doesn't measure below 200Hz as the room influence is very large in this region. Pretty much all dominant room modes and speaker/boundary interference will give significant peaks and troughs in the response below 200Hz. The measurements (below 200Hz) will not tell you how the speaker will perform in your room. Most people wouldn't buy a speaker if they saw the lumpy frequency response below 200Hz - The room speaker/interaction never looks great unless A LOT of work has been done. My sub is tuned (via. the Hypex software) to assist below 30Hz. It is still obvious when the extra sub-30Hz information is added.
|
|
|
Post by macca on Sept 7, 2022 12:00:11 GMT
So one Nordost cable was ruining the whole sound? You know if it had been anything other than Nordost I don't think I would have believed it. Great write up, I have had a listen to some Troels designs in the past (although nothing like as well-finished as these) and been impressed. He knows his stuff. Have heard perfectly integrated subwoofers more than once, it can be done, it's just not easy. It wasn't that they were totally ruining the sound, but there were frequent harsh peaks in the HF with cymbals, female vocals etc. Things hardened up a little during busy passages of music too, and i actually sat there looking at the metal tweeter thinking "is it you that's to blame?" The addition of one pair of PC-Triple C absolutely transformed that sound into a wide open, ultra refined, superbly balanced presentation with unfatiguing detail and transparency. A second pair would have taken us further again, as it has done in my system and now countless others. They are one of the few cables that seem to add the same sort of percentage of upgrade with every additional link. We could have gotten even more from the system if i had a long enough pair of PC-Triple C speaker cables. As it is, the OCC ones did really well, but i could hear the same "negative" at Jason's place, that i hear at home. However, that negative only really comes to the fore when you have PC-Triple C in the chain instead. That would totally ruin the sound for me. I don't use triple C anything but I don't get any harsh peaks, just one would make me stop and totally reconsider my set-up, let alone if they were frequent. But Nordost cables can be weird. Actually any ribbon type cable I have found to be odd. I have some ribbon speaker cable here somewhere, there is something not right about it. Poor old metal dome tweeters get blamed wrongly for all sorts of issues, I often wonder how much money jumping to that incorrect technical conclusion has cost people over the years.
|
|
|
Post by macca on Sept 7, 2022 12:07:31 GMT
Looking at this speaker (I think it is the same one) on the Troels site he does not mention the bass extension and he does not measure below 200Hz so I am wondering what it actually is? Given cabinet volume and the bass driver I would guess about 50Hz in room after which it will roll of steeply, being a ported design. So you might expect a sub to make a significant addition. Like I said just an educated guess maybe Jason can elucidate? EDIT - link to what I was looking at troelsgravesen.dk/Ekta.htm#Measurements:They are the Ekta MkIIs: www.troelsgravesen.dk/EKTA-mkII.htmF3 is around 37Hz. My dominant (along length) room mode is 32Hz, so aids the speakers to give a pretty consistent response down to 30Hz. Many manufacturers quote -6db bass response and some -10db. Some do not state the dB drop, so I'm always wary of their figures. Some claim 25Hz, but it is at -10db and not stated as such. Many tailor the in-room response to give them a deeper measured bass too - for example choose a room that adds a lift to bass where the speaker is tailing off. I am extremely cautious of bass response figures - The only way to know is to use a proper mic/software with your speakers in your room. Troels generally doesn't measure below 200Hz as the room influence is very large in this region. Pretty much all dominant room modes and speaker/boundary interference will give significant peaks and troughs in the response below 200Hz. The measurements (below 200Hz) will not tell you how the speaker will perform in your room. Most people wouldn't buy a speaker if they saw the lumpy frequency response below 200Hz - The room speaker/interaction never looks great unless A LOT of work has been done. My sub is tuned (via. the Hypex software) to assist below 30Hz. It is still obvious when the extra sub-30Hz information is added. yep I understand why he does not show measurements below 200Hz, and that's fair enough, he needs to buy a Klippel Yes a lot of manufacturer figures are dodgy, thankfully we now have several sources of independent measurements available on line which might change that although it won't be overnight. 37Hz is very good given the size of the speaker.
|
|
Arke
Moderator
Posts: 1,259
|
Post by Arke on Sept 7, 2022 12:17:16 GMT
They are the Ekta MkIIs: www.troelsgravesen.dk/EKTA-mkII.htmF3 is around 37Hz. My dominant (along length) room mode is 32Hz, so aids the speakers to give a pretty consistent response down to 30Hz. Many manufacturers quote -6db bass response and some -10db. Some do not state the dB drop, so I'm always wary of their figures. Some claim 25Hz, but it is at -10db and not stated as such. Many tailor the in-room response to give them a deeper measured bass too - for example choose a room that adds a lift to bass where the speaker is tailing off. I am extremely cautious of bass response figures - The only way to know is to use a proper mic/software with your speakers in your room. Troels generally doesn't measure below 200Hz as the room influence is very large in this region. Pretty much all dominant room modes and speaker/boundary interference will give significant peaks and troughs in the response below 200Hz. The measurements (below 200Hz) will not tell you how the speaker will perform in your room. Most people wouldn't buy a speaker if they saw the lumpy frequency response below 200Hz - The room speaker/interaction never looks great unless A LOT of work has been done. My sub is tuned (via. the Hypex software) to assist below 30Hz. It is still obvious when the extra sub-30Hz information is added. yep I understand why he does not show measurements below 200Hz, and that's fair enough, he needs to buy a Klippel Yes a lot of manufacturer figures are dodgy, thankfully we now have several sources of independent measurements available on line which might change that although it won't be overnight. 37Hz is very good given the size of the speaker. I'm sure Oli would agree that the bass is not lacking in the Ekta mkIIs.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
|
Post by Bigman80 on Sept 7, 2022 12:47:34 GMT
It wasn't that they were totally ruining the sound, but there were frequent harsh peaks in the HF with cymbals, female vocals etc. Things hardened up a little during busy passages of music too, and i actually sat there looking at the metal tweeter thinking "is it you that's to blame?" The addition of one pair of PC-Triple C absolutely transformed that sound into a wide open, ultra refined, superbly balanced presentation with unfatiguing detail and transparency. A second pair would have taken us further again, as it has done in my system and now countless others. They are one of the few cables that seem to add the same sort of percentage of upgrade with every additional link. We could have gotten even more from the system if i had a long enough pair of PC-Triple C speaker cables. As it is, the OCC ones did really well, but i could hear the same "negative" at Jason's place, that i hear at home. However, that negative only really comes to the fore when you have PC-Triple C in the chain instead. That would totally ruin the sound for me. I don't use triple C anything but I don't get any harsh peaks, just one would make me stop and totally reconsider my set-up, let alone if they were frequent. But Nordost cables can be weird. Actually any ribbon type cable I have found to be odd. I have some ribbon speaker cable here somewhere, there is something not right about it. Poor old metal dome tweeters get blamed wrongly for all sorts of issues, I often wonder how much money jumping to that incorrect technical conclusion has cost people over the years. Yeah, they got in the way...no doubt. Far far better once they were out.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
|
Post by Bigman80 on Sept 7, 2022 12:47:51 GMT
yep I understand why he does not show measurements below 200Hz, and that's fair enough, he needs to buy a Klippel Yes a lot of manufacturer figures are dodgy, thankfully we now have several sources of independent measurements available on line which might change that although it won't be overnight. 37Hz is very good given the size of the speaker. I'm sure Oli would agree that the bass is not lacking in the Ekta mkIIs. Not lacking at all. Defo went below 50hz.
|
|
|
Post by macca on Sept 7, 2022 12:55:05 GMT
The mark two are clearly a tougher load for the amplifier than the mark one but they look better in pretty much every other area.
Not had a look at his site in years will have to give it a good read, see if he is offering anything that really takes my fancy.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
|
Post by Bigman80 on Sept 7, 2022 12:56:04 GMT
The mark two are clearly a tougher load for the amplifier than the mark one but they look better in pretty much every other area. Not had a look at his site in years will have to give it a good read, see if he is offering anything that really takes my fancy. I've been doing that this morning.....🤣 I want these lol www.troelsgravesen.dk/ATS-4.htm
|
|