Visit to Arke Audio (Rocklard)

I can dream

Looks like I'll be having another ride over to your place then!

So, the first post Oli states “ one of the most impressive sounds i have heard anywhere” and at the bottom of the page 1, he talks about negatives of OCC still being present?
I am confused. Either it is one of the most impressive, or it isn’t?

I think his statement refers to the system once we had made various changes and substitutions.  The offending Nordost cable (and speaker cables) need to go in the bin.  Both have been cut and re-joined due to various reasons.   They weren't in the revised/final system!  I have many thing on my setup 'to do' list.  Sadly it takes time and money - I'll get there.  Yesterday was a fantastic insight into what can be achieved with my speakers... At a relatively modest extra cost too!

I have never heard my speakers sound that good.  I can only ever recall one of two systems sounding that good - It was spine tingling and jaw dropping for me anyway!

EDIT:  I assume you mean the fact that the OCC speaker cables were still in the chain at the end?  I was still impressed.  How many systems are zero compromises?

Kevin, I don't recall saying "absolutely perfect and without the possibility of further improvement"

There is a down side to OCC in my opinion. The LF gets a little bombastic and a wee bit unruly in comparison to the refinement PC-Triple C presents. I have experimented with cables exhaustively in my own system, and it's an issue that caused big interactions with the suspended floor in my room. On this occasion, Jason's speakers held the LF in place extremely well. The system we built with the 1x PC-CCC IC's, 1x OCC IC's and 1x pair of OCC speaker cables is in the top few percent of systems i have heard anywhere regardless of the OCC, which tells me how bloody good the sound was.

Those speaker cables are so much better than the Chord (A/B'd them before) that I felt they merited inclusion, and I was right.

That doesn't mean that I think the system we built couldn't be improved further. The addition of PC-CCC speaker cables and a second pair of PC-CCC interconnects would take the system beyond what we heard yesterday. I am not talking about "little subtleties" either.

SO, yes...it is one of the most impressive systems i have heard, but it could have been THE best system....had we more PC-Triple C

My Little piece on yesterday at Arke HQ with Oli:

This isn't supposed to be a review, as Oli has done a great job on that...

It's safe to say that Oli's ears are precision instruments! It all felt like a bit of a whirlwind of changes to me and so much to process in a relatively short time. I would ideally spend a few hours listening to each change we made and try more music. Limited time and lots of permutations meant we kept it simple and reasonably efficient.

Everything we changed made a difference, but sometimes the difference was minimal/less (for me) than I'd have expected. It is very subjective, of course. We were always in agreement about what was 'better' to our ears.

Starting system: Rega RP10 with Cadenza Black, BB3, MF xp100 pre (JS upgraded), MF a3.2cr power (JS upgraded), ClearAudio and Nordost interconnects, Chord Odyssey speaker cable, Arke Duo speakers (not run in and Crossovers are a basic test version). My cables are a sh!t show! I plan to sort all this in the eventual music room. Cables are joined in various places and are a mess!

The changes:

• Chord Odyssey speaker cable to Oli's OCC speaker cables (not sure on spec): We both noticed a big change in resolution, clarity, tone and general tightness of sound.   This was a revelation, as it was one of the biggest differences for me.
  
• MF xp100 to BT2: There was a difference to me, but not as big as I'd expected. BT2 was slightly (to me) clearer and more open. However, we get used to our sound... I love the organic nature and slight 'romance' my xp100 gives to the sound - it's a very slight warmth and fullness. To Oli this wasn't good and was veiling the music. I think with more time to compare I would notice and more greatly appreciate the neutrality and faithfulness of the BT2. YES, it was an improvement, but I needed more time and tracks to listen and compare. This change was done on the Arkes - Whilst the changes were apparent, the Arkes are not finished (or run in) and the Ektas are a very resolving instrument. The Xp100 vs BT2 would almost definitely have been more obvious through the Ektas.
• Arke Standmounts to Ekta MkII floorstanders: Not really a fair comparison at the moment. The Arke Duos are not run in and I'm still awaiting a few different components for the crossover. The two speakers are very different beasts and not really designed as competitors anyway.
  
• MF a3.2cr to Neurochrome 686: The Neurochrome definitely had more grip and my Ekta speakers require a very firm grip. Tighter, deeper bass and more composure. The difference wasn't as big as I'd expected and my £800 power amp (including upgrade) didn't sound too bad considering.
• Rega RP10 (Cadenza Black) to Phonomac modded SP10 with AT1010Mk8SE arm (Lyra cart?): Big difference! I had hoped for this, as I’m planning to make this change soon. Better everything really… Control, soundstage, tonality etc. a definite veil being lifted.
• Nordost Blue Heaven Interconnect out and PC - Triple C in: Oli noticed a big difference, I noticed a change, but it wasn’t massive to my ears. Again, I needed longer to appreciate what was going on. It was only one interconnect, I’m sure changing more would’ve been more obvious.

In summary, the biggest differences for me were the speaker cable and the TT and arm. Then the 686. I needed longer and more comparisons to appreciate the others more. The BT2 change/improvement would’ve been more obvious on the Ektas too.

One thing was very evident with the end system… It was pretty incredible! Every change (some small and some big) added up to one hell of a system. Have I heard better? Possibly one or two, but they were many, many times the cost! The realism and soundstage were jaw droppingly good - I have never heard that detail before and the speakers really did fade away completely. One day!!! Better save more pennies…

I got my eye on these suckers www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ellipticor-A50.htm

I didn’t say that you said it was perfect. I don’t think that system exists.

I would be interested to hear a PCCCC cable one day. OCC has an average grain size of 125m, and PCCCC is supposed to align these boundaries, so there is less “obstacles” in the signal path. I think that is just a load of hollow if I am honest, as my cables are not over 2M long, so are unlikely to have many grain boundaries. Another positive of PCCCC is it uses Teflon insulation, just like the OCC cable I use. So I am wondering where the secret sauce is coming from? I remain open minded that there may be a difference.

Jason seems less convinced about the PCCCC, so maybe it is something you actively listen for, but it is less obvious to others?

I seem to remember seeing someone build those but can't remember which forum it was!
Looked really nice 

like anyone can hear grain boundaries...

Thing is Chord Odyssey is an odd cable. I have a set of the Odyssey 2. I think it is too thin and that's its problem, or advantage - since I have owned some speakers that I think do sound better with it. Anyway it doesn't surprise me that swapping it for a different cable was noticeable.


But mostly, I prefer the set of unbranded 79 strand I picked up for a tenner.

It was a bit of a whirlwind of listening yesterday. I need to try some pc triple-c for a extended period to get to grips with it. Oli knows what it does, so knows what to listen for. I was constantly adjusting to a new sound, so couldn't exactly keep track of what all the differences were.

Many changes we made were obvious, but I often think that more subtle changes would be difficult to detect reliably when blind listening. I am sure people with a great ear (like Oli) could tell, but I don't think most people could reliably differentiate occ and pcccc when blind. I am happy (and keen) to be proved wrong in a group blind test.

So, where is this difference that Oli can hear coming from?

All this stuff is personally subjective. I know people who think Chord Odyssey was a revelation of deep bass and superb clarity. 

I mean no-one is writing a gospel about this stuff.

Taking the speaker cable as an example, you are going from OFC copper (maybe?) to a decent copper in the OCC cable.
The difference in conductor quality between OCC and CCC is going to be smaller.