Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 16, 2018 16:59:24 GMT
I was going to do an amps thread, but I have had too many to recall, especially Naim and Exposure. Speakers are a bit more memorable for me. Even then I have probably forgotten a few. Here's what I wrote down when I tried to recall. What's your list look like?
Videoton minimax MA252 (3 pairs) MA352 (2 pairs) Cambridge R50 Linn Kan (0ver 40 pairs) LinnKan 2 (5 or 6 pairs) Linn Sara (7 or 8 pairs) Linn Sara 9 (2 pairs) Linn Keilidh Linn Isobarik Rega Ela (4 pairs) Rega Alya Rega Kyte Royd Eden Royd Sapphire Royd A7 Royd Minstrel (2 pairs) Proac Super Tablette ProacTablette 2000 Proac Tablette 50 Epos ES14 (4 pairs) MF MC4 Ariston QLN1 Alexander 566 Alexander SE2 Mordaunt Short Carnival 2? Celestion 3 JPW P1 (3 pairs) JPW AP2 JPW AP3 JPW Sonata Eltax Liberty 3 Townshend Glastonbury 2 Naim IBL (6 pairs) Naim SBL (5 pairs) Naim Credo Triangle Comete Heco Celan 300 Snell K (3 pairs) Audio Note AN-K Snell J3 Snell J2 Apogee Centaur Linn nexus Spica TC50 Spica Angelus Usher S520 Fullers Audio Sultan Aplhason Amphion Arcam 2 (2 pairs) Dean Alto (2 pairs) MA652 MA R100 DCM timeframe DCM Time Window Rogers LS7 Proac Studio 1 Heybrook HB1 Wharfedale Doamond 9 Impulse H6 Impulse H7 Impulse Lali NVA cube 1 NVA Cubette Gale 301 (4 pairs) Neat Petite 1 (4 pairs) Neat Petite 2 (2 pairs) Neat Petite 3 Neat Gravitas REL storm Linn Tukan MA R852 (2 pairs) Mission 70 mk2 Mission 700le (2 pairs) Akai SW275? Klipsch tangent 100 Ruark sabre (2 pairs) Ruark swordsman Ruark wordsman plus Dynaco A25x Shan Shimna
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 17:05:57 GMT
What did you think of the Keilidh?
How would you describe the sound of the ES14?
s.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 16, 2018 17:22:10 GMT
Keilidhs sounded ok, but then I did an A/B comparison with Elas which made them sound dull and boomy. I listed them 5 mins later! They aren't an offensive speaker but not that detailed either. Well made though.
ES14 may be a long answer, so sorry in advance!
My ES14 experiences are 20+ years apart. First time was largely with a Rock and Tma3. Sound on good recordings was breathtaking and they produced believe images well beyond the speakers. But they were also fussy and spat out lesser recordings. Bass too was hard to get right and I was forever moving them. I tried a few recommended amps from dealers inc Exposure X and MF Preamp 2 and P170. Neither drove the Epos well and both were outclassed by the Myst. I did like and keep Exposure speaker cable though. I also bougth Origin Live tripod stands which looked ridiculous but were even better than the Epos stands. Massive footprint though.
The other pairs were all owned between 2012 and 2014. They never reached the heights of my first (early) pair but they were also no bother to accommodate and use. Two of these were later ones with the clown hat bass cone, but the other pair were earlier ones. I don't know if they had mellowed with age or by design tweaks. All the pairs were enjoyable but not even close to the Spicas on any level. And that was with big Exposure and Naim amps, which should favour them.
My only other thougt about the earlier pair's fussiness and erratic bass is that it could've been the Rock turntable. My later exploits were with a Xerxes. I just don't rate the Rock at all now that I have had a chance to own other decks. I could never live with one again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 17:25:41 GMT
Are the ES14's a tad hard to drive? Really must try a pair someday.
S.
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Post by pauld on May 16, 2018 17:25:45 GMT
Single IMF ALS40 (other one had blown) Bespoke Floorstander (sounded pants) Wharfedale Diamond II Rega Kye (Just Yuk!) Linn Nexus Epos ES14 Focal Electra 1028 Be
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 16, 2018 17:29:08 GMT
Single IMF ALS40 (other one had blown) Bespoke Floorstander (sounded pants) Wharfedale Diamond II Rega Kye (Just Yuk!) Linn Nexus Epos ES14 Focal Electra 1028 Be If i had bought an Exposure Pre/Power and a different deck, I might've had my Epos as long as you. It was the constant niggle with them over about 3 years that set me off with the search for other things,
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 16, 2018 17:32:55 GMT
Are the ES14's a tad hard to drive? Really must try a pair someday. S. With the benefit of experience, I'd say not really. They just like an amp that drives them in a certain way. Anything with thinness or weak bass will be poor. Although I have never tried it, I would expect a Creek 4040 or 4140 to drive them ok. Onix OA21 drives them just fine.
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Post by pauld on May 16, 2018 23:33:59 GMT
Prior to the Exposure's I had a Audiolab 8000a and whilst I personally liked its sound with the Linn’s, when I tried it with the Epos it was totally out of its depth. So I’d say they need a decant amp to drive them, yes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 22:26:27 GMT
I was going to do an amps thread, but I have had too many to recall, especially Naim and Exposure. Speakers are a bit more memorable for me. Even then I have probably forgotten a few. Here's what I wrote down when I tried to recall. What's your list look like? Videoton minimax MA252 (3 pairs) MA352 (2 pairs) Cambridge R50 Linn Kan (0ver 40 pairs) LinnKan 2 (5 or 6 pairs) Linn Sara (7 or 8 pairs) Linn Sara 9 (2 pairs) Linn Keilidh Linn Isobarik Rega Ela (4 pairs) Rega Alya Rega Kyte Royd Eden Royd Sapphire Royd A7 Royd Minstrel (2 pairs) Proac Super Tablette ProacTablette 2000 Proac Tablette 50 Epos ES14 (4 pairs) MF MC4 Ariston QLN1 Alexander 566 Alexander SE2 Mordaunt Short Carnival 2? Celestion 3 JPW P1 (3 pairs) JPW AP2 JPW AP3 JPW Sonata Eltax Liberty 3 Townshend Glastonbury 2 Naim IBL (6 pairs) Naim SBL (5 pairs) Naim Credo Triangle Comete Heco Celan 300 Snell K (3 pairs) Audio Note AN-K Snell J3 Snell J2 Apogee Centaur Linn nexus Spica TC50 Spica Angelus Usher S520 Fullers Audio Sultan Aplhason Amphion Arcam 2 (2 pairs) Dean Alto (2 pairs) MA652 MA R100 DCM timeframe DCM Time Window Rogers LS7 Proac Studio 1 Heybrook HB1 Wharfedale Doamond 9 Impulse H6 Impulse H7 Impulse Lali NVA cube 1 NVA Cubette Gale 301 (4 pairs) Neat Petite 1 (4 pairs) Neat Petite 2 (2 pairs) Neat Petite 3 Neat Gravitas REL storm Linn Tukan MA R852 (2 pairs) Mission 70 mk2 Mission 700le (2 pairs) Akai SW275? Klipsch tangent 100 Ruark sabre (2 pairs) Ruark swordsman Ruark wordsman plus Dynaco A25x Shan Shimna I thought you had a crap memory!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 17, 2018 22:47:10 GMT
Last time I made a list it had 200+'speakers on it
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Post by dsjr on May 18, 2018 8:07:29 GMT
That's madness. They're a tool ffs, not a badge of honour
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 18, 2018 8:09:15 GMT
Good job I didn't put up an amps list then
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Post by dsjr on May 18, 2018 8:14:23 GMT
But WHY the constant chopping and changing? I've had this kind of chat with 'Jerry' on AOS and never the twain we'll meet on this.
I've had a few in my time at home, but each was a considered choice. I made some bad mistakes along the way, most due to partnering gear choices at the time or the speakers not suiting the room (Snell E II', Kans and Elas), but the ones I've loved I kept for quite long periods.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 18, 2018 8:16:00 GMT
Prior to the Exposure's I had a Audiolab 8000a and whilst I personally liked its sound with the Linn’s, when I tried it with the Epos it was totally out of its depth. So I’d say they need a decant amp to drive them, yes. It seems to be the bass quality and speed that's needed. My local dealer (who didnt stock Epos at the time) wouldn't believe a Musical fidelity P170 failed to drive 87db speakers with no crossover. Having owned Audiolabs I wouldn't have expected them to fare any better. I reckon the ES14 will rise significantly in price as its cult status grows.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 18, 2018 8:25:17 GMT
But WHY the constant chopping and changing? I've had this kind of chat with 'Jerry' on AOS and never the twain we'll meet on this. I've had a few in my time at home, but each was a considered choice. I made some bad mistakes along the way, most due to partnering gear choices at the time or the speakers not suiting the room (Snell E II', Kans and Elas), but the ones I've loved I kept for quite long periods. It's because I don't just buy to listen. I love the looks, feel and build in the same way a collector of fine things does. If I had the space I'd be a collector, but I don't like loads of bits sat around so my solution has been to buy, play and sell. I never lose money because I buy used stuff at good prices. I also enjoy tarting up and refurbing lots of the stuff that passes through my hands. Sending somethig on its way with a new lease of life is reward in itself. There's also a bit of a "Grail quest" regarding Linn Kans amongst this, which accounts for almost 50 pairs. Basically I am still trying to find a pair as magical as the first ones I sold and regretted losing. I've kinda given up on that for now. Oh, and it's also the cheapest, easiest amd most reliable way of demoing kit. It's in your own home and system, you can take as long as you like, you can keep if you fall in love and you can sell without loss at any time if you want. Without this I wouldn't have discovered Spica, Sonneteer and many other things. Sure beats travelling to a dealers for me.
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Post by dsjr on May 18, 2018 8:43:47 GMT
The Kans are dependant on the KEF B110 bass-mid drivers. KEF's tolerances were wide and the 3/5A could only use one end of this tolerance, hence the high test failure rate and costly tweaking before fit for sale to dealers. the BBC ones with XLR sockets were worst of all, as every one had to be precise centre-spec so they all sounded the same. this wasn't easy to achieve in practise.
AVI NuNeutrons or Pro Nines have a Kan balance and the JBL Control 1's are better than Kans for eighty quid in my opinion.
I have a few speakers I wish I hadn't sold when I did - my BC1's were lovely, confirmed years later when they came back to the shop for a dem, the walnut Isobariks sold to a friend which did sound a bit 'foggy' in absolute terms - at least they didn't screech as the replacements did, The ES14' which entertained me so well (the early ATC 20's were an upgrade though but needed more power) and my much loved and grieved over ATC 100A's.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 18, 2018 12:09:11 GMT
The Kans are dependant on the KEF B110 bass-mid drivers. KEF's tolerances were wide and the 3/5A could only use one end of this tolerance, hence the high test failure rate and costly tweaking before fit for sale to dealers. the BBC ones with XLR sockets were worst of all, as every one had to be precise centre-spec so they all sounded the same. this wasn't easy to achieve in practise. AVI NuNeutrons or Pro Nines have a Kan balance and the JBL Control 1's are better than Kans for eighty quid in my opinion. I have a few speakers I wish I hadn't sold when I did - my BC1's were lovely, confirmed years later when they came back to the shop for a dem, the walnut Isobariks sold to a friend which did sound a bit 'foggy' in absolute terms - at least they didn't screech as the replacements did, The ES14' which entertained me so well (the early ATC 20's were an upgrade though but needed more power) and my much loved and grieved over ATC 100A's. You're right about the B110. I have never heard any two pairs sound the same. AVI is somethig I have never looked at and I didn't expect their speakers to have that sort of balance. I'm sure I will stumble across a pair now. I was sort of put off Kelvin Labs because of previous Kelvin Labs dislike. I had thieir Absolute Zero pre and M30 monos. Max Townshend recommended them to use witn Glastonburys so I bought blind. Or should that be "bland". I sold them to another guy who had heard them being raved over in the mags. He hated them too.
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Post by dsjr on May 18, 2018 18:27:27 GMT
Others thought the kelvin Labs amps sounded good, but I never heard them.
The AVI amps were mostly very good, but only if you wanted the honest truth with no added character and if the speakers appreciated a high damping factor. I'm beginning to realise that not every speaker likes this.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2018 14:44:13 GMT
Wharedale diamond JPW mini monitors B&W P4 B&W CM1 MS 902S Diy isobaric 3 way semi omni
I have not disliked any of these speakers. Still have both b&w pairs, the MS and of course the semi omni's. I used the P4's very happily for 20 years. I did fiddle about with them of course. I reworked the crossovers with polyprop caps and mills resistors all laid out on much larger tufnol boards with much greater distances between components. All hardwired of course. Later the crossover was externalised and then sat right behind the amps. I cant bring myself to part with these. The good thing is they use kevlar mid bass which may be ideal for doc modding.
CM1 are used in my kitchen diner along with a lowly CA CD5 and a lovely little AP20 that dave probably put together. No issues with that little system.
Diy jobbies are not finished, still a bit of experimenting to do with them before finalising a design and building the end product.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 20, 2018 23:49:38 GMT
I still haven't heard a single B&W speaker in all my times and travels. They have just never crossed my path. I came close to hearimg a pair of 801s when I bought my Spica Angelus. The guy selling them offered me a listen to show how little there was between his new B&Ws and the Spicas.
Just at that moment, his builder (new driveway) started up a jackhammer. And then a power cut! I have no idea what happened but it spoiled my one and only chance to hear a B&W speaker.
Back to your speakers: Have you any plans for materials and finish for your speakers in their final form?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2018 5:25:26 GMT
B&W are ok, but just like most other mass produced speakers they are built down to a price and covered with bling and bullshit marketing. Some say that many of the b&w models are all boom and tizz. I am sure some are but not all. My P4's are a 2 way transmission line with 6.5" kevlar mid bass and 1" metal dome tweeter. I loved them for 20 years but they are clearly inferior to my isobaric semi omni jobbies with 12" bass.
The final version will be made of baltic birch ply (as thick as i can find) and may include a bit of steel lining inside. It will have to be a largish cab to accomodate the 12 inchers in isobaric configuration. Current bass cubes are a smidge over 80L and the little cabs on top about 4.5 L. I will go for a single cab but have not finalised the exact shape of the thing. I really like the idea of using the metronome shape where the sides are angles to create a flat topped pyramid when viewed from the front. Not sure yet. Mid will get its own part of the cab right at the top. Bit of bracing here and there too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2018 13:59:37 GMT
I wish more speakers were made of ply. It's so much better tan chipboard or MDF. Things today are getting cheaper in build and it's a real turn off.
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Post by pauld on Jun 25, 2018 13:53:56 GMT
Single IMF ALS40 (other one had blown) Bespoke Floorstander (sounded pants) Wharfedale Diamond II Rega Kye (Just Yuk!) Linn Nexus Epos ES14 Focal Electra 1028 Be I forgot to add Wharfedale Diamond IV which I use in my second (office) system with an Amptastic Mini 1 and Logitech Squeezebox Classic.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 10:07:57 GMT
Twenty two pairs of Tannoy dual concentrics.............And some other stuff, like Proacs, IMF's Quad electrostatics, Celestions, KEFs, B&W's and so on too many to recall, let alone list!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2018 17:40:33 GMT
I was going to do an amps thread, but I have had too many to recall, especially Naim and Exposure. Speakers are a bit more memorable for me. Even then I have probably forgotten a few. Here's what I wrote down when I tried to recall. What's your list look like? Videoton minimax MA252 (3 pairs) MA352 (2 pairs) Cambridge R50 Linn Kan (0ver 40 pairs) LinnKan 2 (5 or 6 pairs) Linn Sara (7 or 8 pairs) Linn Sara 9 (2 pairs) Linn Keilidh Linn Isobarik Rega Ela (4 pairs) Rega Alya Rega Kyte Royd Eden Royd Sapphire Royd A7 Royd Minstrel (2 pairs) Proac Super Tablette ProacTablette 2000 Proac Tablette 50 Epos ES14 (4 pairs) MF MC4 Ariston QLN1 Alexander 566 Alexander SE2 Mordaunt Short Carnival 2? Celestion 3 JPW P1 (3 pairs) JPW AP2 JPW AP3 JPW Sonata Eltax Liberty 3 Townshend Glastonbury 2 Naim IBL (6 pairs) Naim SBL (5 pairs) Naim Credo Triangle Comete Heco Celan 300 Snell K (3 pairs) Audio Note AN-K Snell J3 Snell J2 Apogee Centaur Linn nexus Spica TC50 Spica Angelus Usher S520 Fullers Audio Sultan Aplhason Amphion Arcam 2 (2 pairs) Dean Alto (2 pairs) MA652 MA R100 DCM timeframe DCM Time Window Rogers LS7 Proac Studio 1 Heybrook HB1 Wharfedale Doamond 9 Impulse H6 Impulse H7 Impulse Lali NVA cube 1 NVA Cubette Gale 301 (4 pairs) Neat Petite 1 (4 pairs) Neat Petite 2 (2 pairs) Neat Petite 3 Neat Gravitas REL storm Linn Tukan MA R852 (2 pairs) Mission 70 mk2 Mission 700le (2 pairs) Akai SW275? Klipsch tangent 100 Ruark sabre (2 pairs) Ruark swordsman Ruark wordsman plus Dynaco A25x Shan Shimna Some variety there...! Favourite? Least favourite? Best value?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 6, 2018 17:47:23 GMT
Great question,
Favourite has to be the Spica’s.
Worst is easy: Heybrook HB1. Think chalk and blackboard! Mine were the first batch with gold logos, right after the green and white ones.
Best value would be JPW P1s. £125 new was insane.
I’ll add one more: Best sonically.. has to be Glastonbury’s. They were like alien technology when you got them right: I’ve been heard nothing like them before or since.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2018 17:47:29 GMT
Mission 780SE Dynaudio Audience 62 Dynaudio Audience 82 NVA Cube 1 Goodmans Goodwoods Goodmans Magister DIY (Goodmans 18P) Goodmans RB20 Wharfdale Shelton Wharfdale Glendale 3XP JPW mini monitors JPW mini monitor gold JPW P1 Spirit Absolute Zero
Some tinkered with.
A little variety there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2018 17:52:02 GMT
Great question, Favourite has to be the Spica’s. Worst is easy: Heybrook HB1. Think chalk and blackboard! Mine were the first batch with gold logos, right after the green and white ones. Best value would be JPW P1s. £125 new was insane. I’ll add one more: Best sonically.. has to be Glastonbury’s. They were like alien technology when you got them right: I’ve been heard nothing like them before or since. Thanks for your answer. Never seen or heard a Glastonbury. Will look out for one. Have a pair of JPW P1 myself. I agree they’re good. One of the pairs i’ve held on to. In the attic, but I won’t sell them.
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Post by macca on Jul 6, 2018 18:13:27 GMT
You do have a bad memory, you forgot those Akais I got from you I'll see if I can do a list, will need to be chronological, it's the only way I remember. Fisher ST75 - from Richer Sounds back when it was bin-end heaven. I was a poxy student. Not very good but better than my previous Aiwa midi-system speakers where the tweeter was just painted on. Studio Power MC2000 - designed by Colin Wonfer. My first big speakers, 4 way with twin 8'' bass. Sold them to a builder who liked Van Halen. Wharfedale CRS3 - top small speaker, but no-one has ever heard of them. Lowther Acoustas - nooooooo… not for me but flogged them for loads. Which paid for... My own design, infinite baffle 2 way with 55 litre cabs and Audax drivers (not the cheap ones). Tweaked them a bit too much and ruined them, then they got damaged in a house move. JPW Mini-Monitor plus Yamaha sub (this was a low point) Mission 731LE - good but too small BMW 601 Mk1 - just too small Celestion A2 - had for 10 years, pretty good speakers. Should have kept them really. Advertised them for £200 got my arm bitten off. Mint as the day I bought them, original boxes, the lot. Akai SW175 - 5 way 6 driver config with 3 supertweeters per side and 15'' bass. Use them on the telly these days. KEF Calinda - sold them to a mate with a huge living room, along with an Acoustic research amp.They sound amazing in his place, not so great at mine. IMF TLS50 - big bangers, bass power like you won't believe. Bang & Olufson MC1202- tasty 3 way with mid range dome JM Lab Electra 926 - best speakers I've had to date, wasn't sure I would like them before I got them. And some Tannoy 15'' HPD drivers and crossovers waiting for some Arden cabs to be built. Not that many really for 30 years, especially not compared to Andrew. Although I was poor for a big chunk of that time which held me back a bit, in fairness. Also have some JBL Control Ones and some Studio Power NS10 copies that used to be on the telly but are now just adding to the surplus.
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Post by nonuffin on Jul 6, 2018 18:52:00 GMT
Wharfedale Lintons WAR 2020 bookshelf speakers Celestion Ditton 15 Harbeth HL1, 2 and 3s Magneplanar 3.5s Monitor Audio Studio 20 Mission 773 B & W 603 S2 - the worst speakers I have owned. Horrible disjointed sound. Dali Suite 2.8 Triangle Antal Revel floorstanders Wilson Benesch Arc ART Skibo Linn Isobariks JPW AP3 Arcam Alto Audiovector QR1 Roksan TR5 Systemdek System 165 Pylon Diamond Monitors Quadral Chromium Style 6 - Without doubt the best speakers ever owned.
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