Post by Bigman80 on Feb 14, 2020 18:23:58 GMT
Today i had the immense pleasure of hosting a long talked about session with our very own Paradise phonostage extraordinaire.
I have been itching to hear one for about 3-4 years, but they always escaped me. Today that itch was partly scratched....but lets not start there!
Simon brought the following:
Paradise Phonostage,
Ian Canada DAC (RPI based)
Neurochrome monoblocks (2x86 per monoblock)
Bruno Putzeys Balanced Preamp.
We spent a little time getting Simon's ears acclimatised to the system. we listened to the Bigbottle for a few tracks. I'll let Simon share any thoughts on the Bigbottle.
First in, we decided to try the Monoblocks. After all, there shouldn't be a lot of difference, if any.......we were wrong.
Due to my cables being a bit too short, Simon used his. Some Van Damme stuff. You all know how i feel about VD cable by now and initially, my impressions of the monoblocks were indicative of all the issues i have with the cables. The sound was now a bit flatter, lacked the same amount of bass we had just heard via the 686 and overall, it lost a little bit of everything we'd just heard.
We then put the VD cables in the 686 to make sure we were confirming the cables were as cack as i insisted.
Thats when things got strange.
Ok, yes the cables weren't as good as the Spotfire (understandably so) but the 686 sounded better than the monoblocks whilst using them, certainly enough difference to provoke a "bollocks!" from Simon. Neither of us expected this at all. In fact, i had been hoping that the monoblocks would show me why i need to spend money to make my 686 a dual mono. As it stands, i'll do as im told by Tom, and leave it alone ...for now lol.
Next Simon plumbed the BPBP in. This was a really interesting thing too. The difference between the Neurochrome 8x2 pre and the BPBP was just about wide enough to slide a bit of paper between them. Personally, i still felt the 8x2 with the Khozmo relay attenuator has a slight edge in terms of absolute scalpel like incision but for the first time, i heard a potentiometer i felt didn't cause any issues at all. The TKD in the BPBP has long been on my audition list and it didnt fail to deliver. Cheaper than a Khozmo, it really sang and the drive of the BPBP was very evident.
Simon likened the difference between the two in terms of grain, and i see why. The BPBP was silky smooth and very full sounding in comparison, but the truth is, what was really going on was Simons BPBP had an amount of synergy with his monoblocks and my 8x2 had the same amount of synergy with the 686.
Mixing the two didn't seem "as good" to me but the BPBP was certainly as good as the 8x2, and that's a real achievement as i rate the 8x2 as the best i've heard. It was just slight differences in presentation. I would happily take a BPBP if my 8x2 died. No problem.
Next up was the Ian Canada...
Again, i wanted a test for the PecanPi ($250). It easily battered both the Allo Boss and Katana i had here and i wondered how it would fare against the much lauded Ian Canada stuff at £1200ish.
The Ian Canada wowed with it's speed, incisive sound and its ability to reveal absolutely everything it was being fed. Simon but on a few rock tracks but it didn't hit like the PecanPi. We tried a bit of classical and during a particularly intricate violin run, it stunned me at how it recreated the movement of the fingers lifting and returning to the strings. I really felt it, like i was there.
Tonally, i struggled a little to connect to voices. I felt during the clasical piece that the ICDAC may just edge the PecanPi in Timbre but upon listening to the Pi again, i am not sure it did. What was abundantly clear is that the PecanPi and the ICDAC are more like different flavours of ice cream, rather than different desserts. I don't feel any need to swap the PecanPi for the ICDAC and that is a huge bonus for me and a great result for the PecanPi. I am not sure how it is going to be beaten outright. I would love to hear that same Mozart number via the PecanPi and see if it can recreate that wonderful violin run. In fact, if it cant, it may be worth getting one just for that lol.
Seriously, i love the PecanPi. I think it is a marvellous bit of kit and gives you a genuine top quality performance for less money than some cables. I think it edged impact and especially on drums it seemed to just hit a bit harder but that ICDAC is an absolute cracker. The imaging i think was slightly better but Again, i'm sliding a bit of paper between the two's comparative differences.
Next up.......The Paradise.
As i said, i have been waiting for 3+ years to hear one of these and yes.......it was worth the wait....eventually.
Simon loaded it at 220R, same as the Bigbottle. He dropped the needle and i hated it. It sounded toppy and thin and lost all the body and earthy sound i look for in guitar based music.
Simon changed the loading and BOOM! It was there, or thereabouts.
I have to say, i was mesmerised by it. I haven't heard a SS phonostage image like that. Usually, i accept the trade off from the valve noise to get that wide and deep soundstage but the Paradise did it easily, but without the noise. It was SO quiet, like it wasn't even switched on.
Guitars still had a little too much string vs body balance but like we agreed, changing the loading would certainly allow that to be achieved.
Pinpoint soundstaging but it was coming out of the deepest darkest background i have heard from a phonostage. Utterly mind blowing and i don't say that lightly.
My big concern going into today was that the Bigbottle may get blown away by the Paradise. I didn't feel it did.
Sure, if you want a phonostage of the quality of the Paradise, be prepared to spend upwards of £1500 for it, if not more. The bigbottle (£350 DIY price) didn't quite achieve the ultra clean and precise sound that the Paradise did, but that's always going to be the case as valves are too noisy to hit the same levels. In terms of width of soundstage etc, again, i wan't left thinking it wasn't "as good"
Bass on the Paradise was super tight, super controlled and I did miss the little bit of Valve influence on bass but let's be honest, valves can and do make a mess of bass quite often. No chance of that with the Paradise. Vice like grip and at no point did the sound ever get out of hand or wild. Total control. Mega impressive. Excellent timbral detail and the HF was silky smooth.
They were comparable in a lot of areas, which considering the disparity of components used for the builds and price, is quite something!
I couldn't have been prouder of the Bigbottle. It hung with the bigboy (again) and was only outdone in areas that it physically cannot compete.
Valves are flawed, we know this, but we endure them because of how good they sound. The Neurochrome Amplifier showed me that the need for valves in amplification is no longer necessary. The Paradise has shown me that valves are not entirely necessary in phonostages either.
I absolutely want to get one and compare it to the Avalon project Angus is making. The Paradise wowed. Theres no escaping how impressed I am.
In my opinion, there is still no better Valve phonostage under £1500, than the Bigbottle. It'd an absolute bargain at £350 DIY or £800 built by me. Why they don't get snapped up, i'll never know.
I just want to sincerely thank Simon for his efforts. I am very grateful! He had to bring all his gear down to mine, and to then spend all day chopping and changing gear because i couldn't. He's a top guy and having seen his work up close and personal, i wouldn't hesitate to recommend anything he will build for you. He's got a great ear too.
I have been itching to hear one for about 3-4 years, but they always escaped me. Today that itch was partly scratched....but lets not start there!
Simon brought the following:
Paradise Phonostage,
Ian Canada DAC (RPI based)
Neurochrome monoblocks (2x86 per monoblock)
Bruno Putzeys Balanced Preamp.
We spent a little time getting Simon's ears acclimatised to the system. we listened to the Bigbottle for a few tracks. I'll let Simon share any thoughts on the Bigbottle.
First in, we decided to try the Monoblocks. After all, there shouldn't be a lot of difference, if any.......we were wrong.
Due to my cables being a bit too short, Simon used his. Some Van Damme stuff. You all know how i feel about VD cable by now and initially, my impressions of the monoblocks were indicative of all the issues i have with the cables. The sound was now a bit flatter, lacked the same amount of bass we had just heard via the 686 and overall, it lost a little bit of everything we'd just heard.
We then put the VD cables in the 686 to make sure we were confirming the cables were as cack as i insisted.
Thats when things got strange.
Ok, yes the cables weren't as good as the Spotfire (understandably so) but the 686 sounded better than the monoblocks whilst using them, certainly enough difference to provoke a "bollocks!" from Simon. Neither of us expected this at all. In fact, i had been hoping that the monoblocks would show me why i need to spend money to make my 686 a dual mono. As it stands, i'll do as im told by Tom, and leave it alone ...for now lol.
Next Simon plumbed the BPBP in. This was a really interesting thing too. The difference between the Neurochrome 8x2 pre and the BPBP was just about wide enough to slide a bit of paper between them. Personally, i still felt the 8x2 with the Khozmo relay attenuator has a slight edge in terms of absolute scalpel like incision but for the first time, i heard a potentiometer i felt didn't cause any issues at all. The TKD in the BPBP has long been on my audition list and it didnt fail to deliver. Cheaper than a Khozmo, it really sang and the drive of the BPBP was very evident.
Simon likened the difference between the two in terms of grain, and i see why. The BPBP was silky smooth and very full sounding in comparison, but the truth is, what was really going on was Simons BPBP had an amount of synergy with his monoblocks and my 8x2 had the same amount of synergy with the 686.
Mixing the two didn't seem "as good" to me but the BPBP was certainly as good as the 8x2, and that's a real achievement as i rate the 8x2 as the best i've heard. It was just slight differences in presentation. I would happily take a BPBP if my 8x2 died. No problem.
Next up was the Ian Canada...
Again, i wanted a test for the PecanPi ($250). It easily battered both the Allo Boss and Katana i had here and i wondered how it would fare against the much lauded Ian Canada stuff at £1200ish.
The Ian Canada wowed with it's speed, incisive sound and its ability to reveal absolutely everything it was being fed. Simon but on a few rock tracks but it didn't hit like the PecanPi. We tried a bit of classical and during a particularly intricate violin run, it stunned me at how it recreated the movement of the fingers lifting and returning to the strings. I really felt it, like i was there.
Tonally, i struggled a little to connect to voices. I felt during the clasical piece that the ICDAC may just edge the PecanPi in Timbre but upon listening to the Pi again, i am not sure it did. What was abundantly clear is that the PecanPi and the ICDAC are more like different flavours of ice cream, rather than different desserts. I don't feel any need to swap the PecanPi for the ICDAC and that is a huge bonus for me and a great result for the PecanPi. I am not sure how it is going to be beaten outright. I would love to hear that same Mozart number via the PecanPi and see if it can recreate that wonderful violin run. In fact, if it cant, it may be worth getting one just for that lol.
Seriously, i love the PecanPi. I think it is a marvellous bit of kit and gives you a genuine top quality performance for less money than some cables. I think it edged impact and especially on drums it seemed to just hit a bit harder but that ICDAC is an absolute cracker. The imaging i think was slightly better but Again, i'm sliding a bit of paper between the two's comparative differences.
Next up.......The Paradise.
As i said, i have been waiting for 3+ years to hear one of these and yes.......it was worth the wait....eventually.
Simon loaded it at 220R, same as the Bigbottle. He dropped the needle and i hated it. It sounded toppy and thin and lost all the body and earthy sound i look for in guitar based music.
Simon changed the loading and BOOM! It was there, or thereabouts.
I have to say, i was mesmerised by it. I haven't heard a SS phonostage image like that. Usually, i accept the trade off from the valve noise to get that wide and deep soundstage but the Paradise did it easily, but without the noise. It was SO quiet, like it wasn't even switched on.
Guitars still had a little too much string vs body balance but like we agreed, changing the loading would certainly allow that to be achieved.
Pinpoint soundstaging but it was coming out of the deepest darkest background i have heard from a phonostage. Utterly mind blowing and i don't say that lightly.
My big concern going into today was that the Bigbottle may get blown away by the Paradise. I didn't feel it did.
Sure, if you want a phonostage of the quality of the Paradise, be prepared to spend upwards of £1500 for it, if not more. The bigbottle (£350 DIY price) didn't quite achieve the ultra clean and precise sound that the Paradise did, but that's always going to be the case as valves are too noisy to hit the same levels. In terms of width of soundstage etc, again, i wan't left thinking it wasn't "as good"
Bass on the Paradise was super tight, super controlled and I did miss the little bit of Valve influence on bass but let's be honest, valves can and do make a mess of bass quite often. No chance of that with the Paradise. Vice like grip and at no point did the sound ever get out of hand or wild. Total control. Mega impressive. Excellent timbral detail and the HF was silky smooth.
They were comparable in a lot of areas, which considering the disparity of components used for the builds and price, is quite something!
I couldn't have been prouder of the Bigbottle. It hung with the bigboy (again) and was only outdone in areas that it physically cannot compete.
Valves are flawed, we know this, but we endure them because of how good they sound. The Neurochrome Amplifier showed me that the need for valves in amplification is no longer necessary. The Paradise has shown me that valves are not entirely necessary in phonostages either.
I absolutely want to get one and compare it to the Avalon project Angus is making. The Paradise wowed. Theres no escaping how impressed I am.
In my opinion, there is still no better Valve phonostage under £1500, than the Bigbottle. It'd an absolute bargain at £350 DIY or £800 built by me. Why they don't get snapped up, i'll never know.
I just want to sincerely thank Simon for his efforts. I am very grateful! He had to bring all his gear down to mine, and to then spend all day chopping and changing gear because i couldn't. He's a top guy and having seen his work up close and personal, i wouldn't hesitate to recommend anything he will build for you. He's got a great ear too.
