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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 10:23:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 10:47:16 GMT
Those are lovely. Line Magnetic gear ticks a lot of boxes for me. Also from China, these may be of interest. The 'L Cao' field coil 8" speaker. They are beautifully made, the cone being a development of the original Mitsubishi Diatone design from the fifties. www.newbecca.com/product/18615755581
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Post by alit on Feb 24, 2019 11:31:03 GMT
They look well tasty Geoff, not ruinously expensive either. Lot of money to take a punt on though, you know anyone who’s heard them?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 11:39:08 GMT
They look well tasty Geoff, not ruinously expensive either. Lot of money to take a punt on though, you know anyone who’s heard them?No, I don't. But the non-field coil alnico magnet version should presumably be tonally similar and those are well enough liked it seems. I gather Nelson Pass was playing around with some a while back and commented favourably. These are my pair. They sound very nice.
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Post by alit on Feb 24, 2019 12:10:04 GMT
Thanks, been googling, seems there’s little in it between them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 14:56:30 GMT
They look well tasty Geoff, not ruinously expensive either. Lot of money to take a punt on though, you know anyone who’s heard them?No, I don't. But the non-field coil alnico magnet version should presumably be tonally similar and those are well enough liked it seems. I gather Nelson Pass was playing around with some a while back and commented favourably. These are my pair. They sound very nice. I remember you showing me those in the flesh, Geoff. Very well made units! S.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 6:37:11 GMT
Bet me wee falcons would kick they're arse.........David and Goliath anyone. 😁😁😁
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 7:10:59 GMT
Never heard either so cant say Jammy.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 25, 2019 9:19:04 GMT
Bet me wee falcons would kick they're arse.........David and Goliath anyone. 😁😁😁 Considering the size, the dollar price isn’t as high as I’d have expected. My only beef is the grilles. Probably the ugliest ones I’ve seen on any modern speaker. I’d love to hear them.
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Post by macca on Feb 25, 2019 9:37:24 GMT
This was quite funny: 'Still, I did not find them difficult to set up; by the third day I had finalized their placement'
Yep not hard to set up, only took him three days!
Then you've got this 'They are one of the few speakers that are dynamic enough for orchestral or big band music, but refined enough for a small jazz quartet or a string trio.'
So only a few speakers can do this? What, in the world? What a load of bollocks that is. Like he's looking round for something good to say about them. Reading between the lines they are awkward to set up, a bit shut in, don't have any deep bass and sound veiled. And with the grilles on it looks like you have a confessional booth in your living room.
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 25, 2019 12:06:30 GMT
There's always lots of claims made for field coil speakers but we seldom see any real world measurements of them beyond gross sensitivity, which is often their strong point. I don't know much about them, do they tend to be more linear than magnet based cone drivers? One assumes much less thermal compression as the power into the voice coil can be much less and the magnet is now a fixed coil so can be made accordingly beefy as it doesn't affect moving mass.
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Post by macca on Feb 25, 2019 12:15:37 GMT
In a crowded, in fact saturated market like loudspeakers any sort of technology that can be resurrected to give a USP seems to be represented somewhere. And nothing better than a technology from the dim and distant past because you can say 'Hey those old boys had the best ideas right back at the beginning!' People love to believe that sort of claim is true so you're ahead from the get-go.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 12:56:15 GMT
In a crowded, in fact saturated market like loudspeakers any sort of technology that can be resurrected to give a USP seems to be represented somewhere. And nothing better than a technology from the dim and distant past because you can say 'Hey those old boys had the best ideas right back at the beginning!' People love to believe that sort of claim is true so you're ahead from the get-go. Have you ever heard a well set up Klipschorn in the right room, I would hazard a guess they got it right back then. There is a nostalgia wave on at the moment, and for the most part you are correct, most of the overrated old stuff certainty sounds like it is playing through your cardigan. Guess I am to old for modern Bling things.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 13:02:54 GMT
Yup I think hifi's golden era passed a long time ago.
(Though when that was is debatable)
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Post by macca on Feb 25, 2019 13:15:16 GMT
They did get some things right back then which is why it is such a good marketing tool. You've only got to look at the number of people who end up with Tannoys, QUAD electrostatics or, as you say, Klipshhorns, after years of trying all sorts of speakers to know that is true. But it doesn't extend to everything old.
One thing about the old speakers that are still rated today is that they were all pretty large. The biggest lie ever sold to anyone was that there is some inherent advantage in small speakers (they're 'faster', they 'image better', they have 'tight bass'). All total hogwash. All small speakers are inherently compromised. But they are cheap to make and to ship, even if that isn't reflected in the sticker price.
If you look at that review the things he likes about the speakers are the scale and the effortlessness. Both are functions of their size, nothing else. The things he doesn't like - the lack of air in the top end, the limited bass extension, the lack of resolution of detail, are all characteristics of a single driver speaker.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 13:28:50 GMT
The biggest lie ever sold to anyone was that there is some inherent advantage in small speakers (they're 'faster', they 'image better', they have 'tight bass'). All total hogwash. All small speakers are inherently compromised. And here's me thinking the biggest lie ever sold was Keyssr Soze convincing the world he never existed. 🤔
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Post by alit on Feb 25, 2019 13:35:35 GMT
There's always lots of claims made for field coil speakers but we seldom see any real world measurements of them beyond gross sensitivity, which is often their strong point. I don't know much about them, do they tend to be more linear than magnet based cone drivers? One assumes much less thermal compression as the power into the voice coil can be much less and the magnet is now a fixed coil so can be made accordingly beefy as it doesn't affect moving mass. One of the lads at a previous Owston brought a set of OB’s he’d built with a pair of 70 year old German field coils- might have been Klangfilm but I’m not sure. They sounded amazing, still probably the best I’ve heard a cone speaker sound.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 13:39:42 GMT
I am a great fan of a large speaker nothing does bass right like a big box. I find a lot of Multi driver speakers to be discordant cant stand hearing which driver is making the sound. Single driver speakers are so limited in what they can play. A good well integrated 3 or 4 way usually costs the earth, the exception being the Vandresteen 2 that does everything right at an affordable price. Since hearing quite a few big well thought out two ways this is what I like. Modern compression drivers are great my Cornscalas cross at 500 Hz absolutely seamlessly. I notice that a lot of Studios use large two way horns as monitors. Not the folded variety that is a different kettle of fish. TAD 2401
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Post by macca on Feb 25, 2019 13:40:23 GMT
The biggest lie ever sold to anyone was that there is some inherent advantage in small speakers (they're 'faster', they 'image better', they have 'tight bass'). All total hogwash. All small speakers are inherently compromised. And here's me thinking the biggest lie ever sold was Keyssr Soze convincing the world he never existed. 🤔 That's only if you don't count all the lies about hi-fi...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 13:44:54 GMT
The biggest lie ever sold to anyone was that there is some inherent advantage in small speakers (they're 'faster', they 'image better', they have 'tight bass'). All total hogwash. All small speakers are inherently compromised. And here's me thinking the biggest lie ever sold was Keyssr Soze convincing the world he never existed. 🤔 Nope that was Elmar Dymp trying to pass him self off as intelligent, among'st his other wild claims, like loving his country, and being remotely human.
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Post by macca on Feb 25, 2019 13:48:29 GMT
I am a great fan of a large speaker nothing does bass right like a big box. I find a lot of Multi driver speakers to be discordant cant stand hearing which driver is making the sound. Single driver speakers are so limited in what they can play. A good well integrated 3 or 4 way usually costs the earth, the exception being the Vandresteen 2 that does everything right at an affordable price. Since hearing quite a few big well thought out two ways this is what I like. Modern compression drivers are great my Cornscalas cross at 500 Hz absolutely seamlessly. I notice that a lot of Studios use large two way horns as monitors. Not the folded variety that is a different kettle of fish. TAD 2401 Only the mid/top is horn loaded in the TAD 2401 though. 600Hz and up. I've no problem with that, it's single driver horns or bass horns that I can't be doing with. I know some people like them, but they never sound right to me. Most multi-way speakers I have heard/owned I have liked. Never had the problem of hearing the individual drivers but then I don't listen near field like a lot of people seem to do. Another myth is that single-way or two way speakers must be intrinsically better because they are simpler. Usually propagated by people who have no idea how a loudspeaker works.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 13:49:41 GMT
There is a nostalgia wave on at the moment, and for the most part you are correct, most of the overrated old stuff certainty sounds like it is playing through your cardigan. Guess I am to old for modern Bling things. I have heard the Klipschorns a few times. They are great speakers!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 14:22:49 GMT
I am a great fan of a large speaker nothing does bass right like a big box. I find a lot of Multi driver speakers to be discordant cant stand hearing which driver is making the sound. Single driver speakers are so limited in what they can play. A good well integrated 3 or 4 way usually costs the earth, the exception being the Vandresteen 2 that does everything right at an affordable price. Since hearing quite a few big well thought out two ways this is what I like. Modern compression drivers are great my Cornscalas cross at 500 Hz absolutely seamlessly. I notice that a lot of Studios use large two way horns as monitors. Not the folded variety that is a different kettle of fish. TAD 2401 Only the mid/top is horn loaded in the TAD 2401 though. 600Hz and up. I've no problem with that, it's single driver horns or bass horns that I can't be doing with. I know some people like them, but they never sound right to me. Most multi-way speakers I have heard/owned I have liked. Never had the problem of hearing the individual drivers but then I don't listen near field like a lot of people seem to do. Another myth is that single-way or two way speakers must be intrinsically better because they are simpler. Usually propagated by people who have no idea how a loudspeaker works. If you ever get the opportunity listen to a Vivid Audio K1 and you will certainly get what I mean. I just happen to be very sensitive in hearing the crossover between drivers. On most speakers it is hidden by that nasty Upper Mid Range Bump. Hate that with a passion.
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