Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 18, 2021 19:20:17 GMT
Whatever your opinion is of mains cables, i have always felt at the very least that it is "best Practice" to have shielded cables. I haven't spent a lot of money on cables for mains duties, as if you force enough current through anything, it will conduct! So with that in mind, OFC Belden stuff has always been fine by me. I also, oddly for me, haven't seemed to care what cable i have used in any particular area. For instance, i have a couple of other branded mains cables here and i rotate them at a whim. However, i have always kept a 3x4mm Lapp cable on the 686. Presuming it's larger gauge would be perfect for Power Amp duties. I got it for free and have used it since. Over the last few weeks, i have been incredibly happy with the system, so decided i'd put the final link of Belden into the system. A 10" length from the mains socket into the Wireworld distribution block.....and i have been miserable since. For some inexplicable reason the sound became heavy. Sounded rolled off and far too bassy. I thought the cable may need a little while to burn in so i just left everything on low level for a few days and revisited. It didn't make much, if any difference that i could discern. I swapped the 10" kettle lead back in and whilst i lost depth and imaging to a small degree, i also removed the heavy, bassy sound. I did this a few times on different albums, but every time it was clearly obvious. Missing that improvement in imaging i had with the 10" Belden, i stuck it back in and thought i would suffer through it....but as you know, we can't ignore what's going on. Whilst no longer listening to the system due to the issue, i pondered what i may have to do in order to solve this conundrum. In the meantime, I was sent a message by a very astute member here with a link to a mains cable comparison where the reviewer used different mains cables to tune his system depending on what amp he used. I remembered that when Angus and I replaced the SMPS with a LPSU in the 686, i had come home and felt it was a little glaring. It needed to burn in. The Mains cable i used on it prior to the transplant? A Belden. I tried the Lapp cable, preferred the Lapp cable at the time and then obviously used the Lapp cable to tame the 686 as it took the glint off..... SO, I have built a Belden cable for the 686 power amp, and..........Yes! We're back...but better than ever!! The new Belden mains cables have pulled even more detail out of the system. I am not claiming that it be for any other reason than maybe better copper than the standard kettle lead or any other feasible reason, but holy Christmas, I am stunned at the texture! I am listening to Dvorak - Paul Tortelier and the Cello is SO tangible and emotive that i am moving my head to the movement of the bow...absolutely unaware of doing it with any thought. The power of the strings is leaving me aghast. It's like the performance has been given some sort of mass, and its full force is now available. Track after track passed. Album after Album, and by Jove it's good.....real good. SO good, that my mind wondered onto "i wonder what OCC would do?" As i am one to not leave any stone unturned, i got in touch with optical, who has bought a fait bit of copper recently and asked for a recommendation. He gladly provided one and i now have a 2m length on the way. I will make this up and compare it directly with the Belden in the 686. A few Pics to follow! |
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optical
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Post by optical on Nov 18, 2021 19:44:56 GMT
Pairing that particular cable with the Papri plug and outlet did not yield a subtle difference.
The 686 is a lot happier with it, and I haven't even got a proper power supply in there yet....
Prior to that I was using Belden 83803 which I found superior for 'high power' kit, it is of a ridiculous gauge and solid core. It's good but this OCC stuff does seem to suit the system even more.
Granted I haven't tried the Belden with these very nice copper plugs on, it may be the plugs that are responsible for the majority of improvement, either way I'm happy with it/them.
I will put some proper plugs on the Belden too one day as it's really great cable too. Stiff as a teenage boy in the girls changing room though....
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Post by misterc on Nov 18, 2021 19:53:10 GMT
A correctly engineered mains cable is invaluable imho
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Post by misterc on Nov 18, 2021 19:56:21 GMT
Especially if Miss Hunt was conducting rounders, her games skirt was shorter than the girls and she loved to bend over and teasingly pick up the ball in front of the cricket team and she never wore anything underneath total commando and boy is resembled a true peach, ripe and perfect; idle for plucking  |
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optical
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Post by optical on Nov 18, 2021 20:01:02 GMT
Especially if Miss Hunt was conducting rounders, her games skirt was shorter than the girls and she loved to bend over and teasingly pick up the ball in front of the cricket team and she never wore anything underneath total commando and boy is resembled a true peach, ripe and perfect; idle for plucking Christ, clearly I went to the wrong (all boys Grammar) school.... Mr Dean never did anything like that for us.... |
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Post by misterc on Nov 18, 2021 20:04:35 GMT
Especially if Miss Hunt was conducting rounders, her games skirt was shorter than the girls and she loved to bend over and teasingly pick up the ball in front of the cricket team and she never wore anything underneath total commando and boy is resembled a true peach, ripe and perfect; idle for plucking Christ, clearly I went to the wrong (all boys Grammar) school.... Mr Dean never did anything like that for us.... State comp's did have some benefits  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2021 20:27:58 GMT
I use mainly Neotech OCC mains cables.
Why not I thought…
I also have a Mark Grant I picked up cheap.
I do need to change them around a bit, as the PC currently has an OCC cable, and the DDC does not….
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Bigman80
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Posts: 16,358
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 18, 2021 20:28:50 GMT
Pairing that particular cable with the Papri plug and outlet did not yield a subtle difference. The 686 is a lot happier with it, and I haven't even got a proper power supply in there yet.... Prior to that I was using Belden 83803 which I found superior for 'high power' kit, it is of a ridiculous gauge and solid core. It's good but this OCC stuff does seem to suit the system even more. Granted I haven't tried the Belden with these very nice copper plugs on, it may be the plugs that are responsible for the majority of improvement, either way I'm happy with it/them. I will put some proper plugs on the Belden too one day as it's really great cable too. Stiff as a teenage boy in the girls changing room though.... I'm looking forward to this combo and knowing the thirst out there for mains cables, if they don't work out, they should sell easily. I can't tell you the level of relief I'm feeling right now. Just to be enjoying vinyl again is the greatest result. |
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Post by brucew268 on Nov 18, 2021 20:52:11 GMT
Pairing that particular cable with the Papri plug and outlet did not yield a subtle difference. The 686 is a lot happier with it, and I haven't even got a proper power supply in there yet..... I noticed no one has mentioned what cable it is. Is it a secret or can you say? |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 18, 2021 20:58:07 GMT
Pairing that particular cable with the Papri plug and outlet did not yield a subtle difference. The 686 is a lot happier with it, and I haven't even got a proper power supply in there yet..... I noticed no one has mentioned what cable it is. Is it a secret or can you say? Chris has said I can share, so here is: Cable: a.aliexpress.com/_mqKV2o6UK Plug: a.aliexpress.com/_mKg7174IEC Connection: a.aliexpress.com/_mLhkuGiI went for the gold plated copper option. |
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optical
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Post by optical on Nov 18, 2021 21:06:47 GMT
No secrets here lads.... Thought Oli was putting pics up etc so didn't bother linking. Anyway here she is a.aliexpress.com/_vZhVNi |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 18, 2021 21:10:13 GMT
No secrets here lads.... Thought Oli was putting pics up etc so didn't bother linking. Anyway here she is a.aliexpress.com/_vZhVNiGood man. I have linked to the stuff I'll be making the cable out of. Just in case anyone else fancies a go! |
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Post by brucew268 on Nov 18, 2021 21:22:16 GMT
Thx for that. I look forward to listening reports... in due time. Chris, have you liked this for low power (pre & DAC) or primarily high power applications in your system. Were you saying this stuff is stiff or just the Belden 83803 (which has the rep of being stiff).
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optical
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Post by optical on Nov 18, 2021 21:34:07 GMT
Thx for that. I look forward to listening reports... in due time. Chris, have you liked this for low power (pre & DAC) or primarily high power applications in your system. Were you saying this stuff is stiff or just the Belden 83803 (which has the rep of being stiff).
So far I've only got enough for the length to the power amp (so high power I guess) and the rest is a mixture of the 83803 and 19364. I find the former works best with my preamp and the latter with DAC's. Maybe not much difference, probably on my head that one, but the OCC stuff with the 686 is a big difference. To clarify yes I meant the 83803 is very stiff, the OCC cable isn't exactly super flexible but certainly more so. Just because the sale was on I bought a few of these too (but for an absolute steal). The plugs aren't so good but for just over a tenner I though, yes, I'll have 4 of those please. a.aliexpress.com/_v0lSbK |
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Post by brian2957 on Nov 18, 2021 21:39:56 GMT
Whatever your opinion is of mains cables, i have always felt at the very least that it is "best Practice" to have shielded cables. I haven't spent a lot of money on cables for mains duties, as if you force enough current through anything, it will conduct! So with that in mind, OFC Belden stuff has always been fine by me. I also, oddly for me, haven't seemed to care what cable i have used in any particular area. For instance, i have a couple of other branded mains cables here and i rotate them at a whim. However, i have always kept a 3x4mm Lapp cable on the 686. Presuming it's larger gauge would be perfect for Power Amp duties. I got it for free and have used it since. Over the last few weeks, i have been incredibly happy with the system, so decided i'd put the final link of Belden into the system. A 10" length from the mains socket into the Wireworld distribution block.....and i have been miserable since. For some inexplicable reason the sound became heavy. Sounded rolled off and far too bassy. I thought the cable may need a little while to burn in so i just left everything on low level for a few days and revisited. It didn't make much, if any difference that i could discern. I swapped the 10" kettle lead back in and whilst i lost depth and imaging to a small degree, i also removed the heavy, bassy sound. I did this a few times on different albums, but every time it was clearly obvious. Missing that improvement in imaging i had with the 10" Belden, i stuck it back in and thought i would suffer through it....but as you know, we can't ignore what's going on. Whilst no longer listening to the system due to the issue, i pondered what i may have to do in order to solve this conundrum. In the meantime, I was sent a message by a very astute member here with a link to a mains cable comparison where the reviewer used different mains cables to tune his system depending on what amp he used. I remembered that when Angus and I replaced the SMPS with a LPSU in the 686, i had come home and felt it was a little glaring. It needed to burn in. The Mains cable i used on it prior to the transplant? A Belden. I tried the Lapp cable, preferred the Lapp cable at the time and then obviously used the Lapp cable to tame the 686 as it took the glint off..... SO, I have built a Belden cable for the 686 power amp, and..........Yes! We're back...but better than ever!! The new Belden mains cables have pulled even more detail out of the system. I am not claiming that it be for any other reason than maybe better copper than the standard kettle lead or any other feasible reason, but holy Christmas, I am stunned at the texture! I am listening to Dvorak - Paul Tortelier and the Cello is SO tangible and emotive that i am moving my head to the movement of the bow...absolutely unaware of doing it with any thought. The power of the strings is leaving me aghast. It's like the performance has been given some sort of mass, and its full force is now available. Track after track passed. Album after Album, and by Jove it's good.....real good. SO good, that my mind wondered onto "i wonder what OCC would do?" As i am one to not leave any stone unturned, i got in touch with optical , who has bought a fait bit of copper recently and asked for a recommendation. He gladly provided one and i now have a 2m length on the way. I will make this up and compare it directly with the Belden in the 686. A few Pics to follow! Which Belden cable is it you have built Oli, and which plugs are you using with it ? Thanks. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,358
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 18, 2021 21:45:35 GMT
Whatever your opinion is of mains cables, i have always felt at the very least that it is "best Practice" to have shielded cables. I haven't spent a lot of money on cables for mains duties, as if you force enough current through anything, it will conduct! So with that in mind, OFC Belden stuff has always been fine by me. I also, oddly for me, haven't seemed to care what cable i have used in any particular area. For instance, i have a couple of other branded mains cables here and i rotate them at a whim. However, i have always kept a 3x4mm Lapp cable on the 686. Presuming it's larger gauge would be perfect for Power Amp duties. I got it for free and have used it since. Over the last few weeks, i have been incredibly happy with the system, so decided i'd put the final link of Belden into the system. A 10" length from the mains socket into the Wireworld distribution block.....and i have been miserable since. For some inexplicable reason the sound became heavy. Sounded rolled off and far too bassy. I thought the cable may need a little while to burn in so i just left everything on low level for a few days and revisited. It didn't make much, if any difference that i could discern. I swapped the 10" kettle lead back in and whilst i lost depth and imaging to a small degree, i also removed the heavy, bassy sound. I did this a few times on different albums, but every time it was clearly obvious. Missing that improvement in imaging i had with the 10" Belden, i stuck it back in and thought i would suffer through it....but as you know, we can't ignore what's going on. Whilst no longer listening to the system due to the issue, i pondered what i may have to do in order to solve this conundrum. In the meantime, I was sent a message by a very astute member here with a link to a mains cable comparison where the reviewer used different mains cables to tune his system depending on what amp he used. I remembered that when Angus and I replaced the SMPS with a LPSU in the 686, i had come home and felt it was a little glaring. It needed to burn in. The Mains cable i used on it prior to the transplant? A Belden. I tried the Lapp cable, preferred the Lapp cable at the time and then obviously used the Lapp cable to tame the 686 as it took the glint off..... SO, I have built a Belden cable for the 686 power amp, and..........Yes! We're back...but better than ever!! The new Belden mains cables have pulled even more detail out of the system. I am not claiming that it be for any other reason than maybe better copper than the standard kettle lead or any other feasible reason, but holy Christmas, I am stunned at the texture! I am listening to Dvorak - Paul Tortelier and the Cello is SO tangible and emotive that i am moving my head to the movement of the bow...absolutely unaware of doing it with any thought. The power of the strings is leaving me aghast. It's like the performance has been given some sort of mass, and its full force is now available. Track after track passed. Album after Album, and by Jove it's good.....real good. SO good, that my mind wondered onto "i wonder what OCC would do?" As i am one to not leave any stone unturned, i got in touch with optical , who has bought a fait bit of copper recently and asked for a recommendation. He gladly provided one and i now have a 2m length on the way. I will make this up and compare it directly with the Belden in the 686. A few Pics to follow! Which Belden cable is it you have built Oli, and which plugs are you using with it ? Thanks. |
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Post by robbiegong on Nov 18, 2021 21:50:56 GMT
No question Olster, cables do make a difference, whether one likes that difference is another matter, but they do make a difference. I've found this with all cables, speaker, interconnects, Powercords. And to add to the mix, a better quality cable will not necessarily sound better where you put it, over the 'lesser' one it's replacing. I've found synergy is key, it just is, some things work together and make your system sound right and sing, some things put in, suddenly upset the equilibrium - this game'll break some people, no wonder folk think we're mad - we probably are  |
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Post by brian2957 on Nov 18, 2021 21:51:44 GMT
Thanks buddy. I've used Belden 19364 in the past and wasn't impressed. Maybe this combination of cable and plugs is the way to go.
Are you connecting the drain wire ? If so at which end(s) ?
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Post by brian2957 on Nov 18, 2021 21:55:57 GMT
No question Olster, cables do make a difference, whether one likes that difference is another matter, but they do make a difference. I've found this with all cables, speaker, interconnects, Powercords. And to add to the mix, a better quality cable will not necessarily sound better where you put it, over the 'lesser' one it's replacing. I've found synergy is key, it just is, some things work together and make your system sound right and sing, some things put in, suddenly upset the equilibrium - this game'll break some people, no wonder folk think we're mad - we probably are Good post Robbie, and so so true. I've been playing around with cables for nearly 30 years and can wreck the sound of my system with one cable change  |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,358
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 18, 2021 22:00:19 GMT
Thanks buddy. I've used Belden 19364 in the past and wasn't impressed. Maybe this combination of cable and plugs is the way to go. Are you connecting the drain wire ? If so at which end(s) ? Yes mate, drain wire at wall end only. No idea if that's the "right" way to do it, bit the ones I've taken apart have all been done that way. Again, no idea where the Belden sits. It may be awful, but it's the only awful I've known so maybe they are better than kettle leads but worse than everything else. Hence the urgency to try some OCC. If the OCC works and is audibly superior, I'll not Hesitate and I'll snap up PC-TRIPLE C. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,358
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 18, 2021 22:00:54 GMT
No question Olster, cables do make a difference, whether one likes that difference is another matter, but they do make a difference. I've found this with all cables, speaker, interconnects, Powercords. And to add to the mix, a better quality cable will not necessarily sound better where you put it, over the 'lesser' one it's replacing. I've found synergy is key, it just is, some things work together and make your system sound right and sing, some things put in, suddenly upset the equilibrium - this game'll break some people, no wonder folk think we're mad - we probably are Good post Robbie, and so so true. I've been playing around with cables for nearly 30 years and can wreck the sound of my system with one cable change 100% I just didnt think it applied to mains. Seems we're all still learning something new every day. |
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Post by brian2957 on Nov 18, 2021 22:07:00 GMT
Thanks Oli, that's the way I wire the Belden up. I've only used it with cheapish plugs so may buy decent ones.
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Post by brucew268 on Nov 18, 2021 22:41:28 GMT
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,358
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 18, 2021 23:12:53 GMT
If I had the money, that's what I'd of bought. |
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Post by brucew268 on Nov 19, 2021 9:17:38 GMT
The Papri body looks similar to the new higher-zoot Iego plugs, but the wire clamping mechanisms are like the Viborg. I've tried the Viborg polycarb-bodied (?) plug on the DAC and then the amp and didn't like it in either place. Looks like a jewel but lost a good bit of detail and openness in the upper mids and HF. Bass was bigger but not quite as well defined. The Iego copper/gold or the Martin Kaiser silver plated are working better for me.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
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Posts: 16,358
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 19, 2021 9:29:41 GMT
The Papri body looks similar to the new higher-zoot Iego plugs, but the wire clamping mechanisms are like the Viborg. I've tried the Viborg polycarb-bodied (?) plug on the DAC and then the amp and didn't like it in either place. Looks like a jewel but lost a good bit of detail and openness in the upper mids and HF. Bass was bigger but not quite as well defined. The Iego copper/gold or the Martin Kaiser silver plated are working better for me. Yeah I like the iego ones. They are top quality. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2021 10:09:34 GMT
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optical
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Post by optical on Nov 19, 2021 10:42:52 GMT
Lego plugs? <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Excellent sir. |
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Bigman80
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Posts: 16,358
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 19, 2021 10:43:56 GMT
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Post by brucew268 on Nov 19, 2021 10:56:04 GMT
The Papri body looks similar to the new higher-zoot Iego plugs, but the wire clamping mechanisms are like the Viborg. I've tried the Viborg polycarb-bodied (?) plug on the DAC and then the amp and didn't like it in either place. Looks like a jewel but lost a good bit of detail and openness in the upper mids and HF. Bass was bigger but not quite as well defined. The Iego copper/gold or the Martin Kaiser silver plated are working better for me. Yeah I like the iego ones. They are top quality. I'm still a bit unclear why or how it would make a differenece in sound. There is just: - solid metals for conducting
- type of clamping mechanism
- Body which could have some dort of dielectric effect.
The Viborg and Iego claim to both be gold plating over pure copper. Parasol screw clamping vs rising cage clamping. (made the parasol term up) The body of the viborg is larger and black... though one of my Iego's is clear and the other black. Prob the same material.
The sound of the Martin Kaiser is closer to the Iego than the Viborg and the MK is a different body material & shape, silver plated.
I don't know why they sound as they do... but they do.
Lego plugs? <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Yes, you attach them to the existing plug with blu-tack and it makes everything sound yellower! |
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