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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 19:58:39 GMT
I thought I'd share this from AoS. It has been a few months since I last visited Oli and as his revolving door has been spinning quicker than ever I thought it would be good to give Oliver a visit to appreciate what he has been up to in the last few months. I have kept an eye open on some of his changes via his blog but as so many things were happening I could not quite keep up and understand where he was going so a listening session was really the only way to make sense of it all!  So I popped round with a few LPs which I managed to salvage from my own massive upheaval having just moved house and no longer in control of my own system which is now a pile of cardboard boxes.😏  On entering Olivers listening room I could see another selection of black and silver boxes which have replaced the previous set of black and silver boxes but what immediately drew my attention was the absolutely beautiful pair of Mordant Short Performance 880 speakers. These look of the highest quality and are superbly built and finished. The photo does not really do justice too them. I will talk about their performance later. Oliver ran through the system and the only part that had not changed was the turntable which is his classic Technics SP10 Mk2 although this was now in a new plinth. The Phonemic At1010 mk6 arm had been upgraded and there was the usual Ortofon Kb on the end. So to the new stuff. First up not withstanding the speakers was the Neurochrome Modulus 686. Not familiar with this amp? Nor was I. It is I believe a DIY build from America and as Oliver had decided to buy it I though it must be rather good to upstage the Krell KSA50 Beast that he had. The sound and control this power amp had over the system had to be heard and felt to be believed. It has way more muscle than the Krell and really was an Iron grip in velvet glove. It conveyed all the Macro and micro nuances of the music in a massively dynamic way without sounding shouty or in your face, just beautiful smooth absolute control and total transparency. This amp must be the most transparent power amp I have ever heard and made eve OTL amps sound veiled and thick. It had that magic knack of engaging you and unravelling all the strands of the recording with total ease. Even when recording got complex, loud and with huge dynamics this amp let you make sense of everything you listened too. We used both digital and analogue material and the story was the same. I have heard some very expensive hight end power amps in my time but this was far the best power amp I have ever heard!!😱 I could not fault it in any area and it has even made me change my mind regarding valve amps. By far its most impressive ability was its transparency, which contributed to the overall impression that made Olivers system disappear. You were not listening to a system but simply the music and acoustic space. WOW. Backeing up the amp was the Neurochrome Differential preamp. All I can say was it did not have a sound or sonic imprint that I could detect. We listened to vinyl via another new piece of kit...Oliver has certainly been busy and this was a Simaudio MoonLP5.3RS phono stage. This vanished too. SimAudio are well know to myself as I have heard a lot of their kit. It is always excellent and very well made so I was not surprised. Digital was delivered fro a Laptop via the Pecan pi DAC / streamer which is very good and in Oliver's system sounded even better than the RPi3 BOSS. Over the course of the morning swapping back and forth between Vinyl and digital I would say I preferred the vinyl and that is not because I am biased but it just gave a fuller account of the music in more believable way. Most of the music we listened too sounded like it was recorded live in the studio where as digital still sounded slightly processed. That is all I am going to say on that matter. Getting back to the system. At the end of the session I appreciated just what a fabulous find Oliver has had purchasing the Mordaunt Short speakers. In Oliver's room they produced a wonderful scale to the music and were totally in control. Oliver worried a little about the bass but I though it was way more controlled than his previous Pioneer speakers. These new speakers are total class, smooth, detailed, dynamic and have a seamless integration from top to bottom. Hooked up to the rest of Oliver's new kit was just stunning. More than once I had the hairs stand up on the back of my neck and I was inspired by a system that really sounded exciting and totally musical. The sound Oliver has now is exactly what I like and would seek. If I had to sum it up in one word it would be TRANSPARENCY. His system got out of the way and left you with just the music. It did not sound like you were listening to hifi or recorded music for that matter. You really could believe in the performance with a sense of reality that was sometimes breathtaking. Oli has certainly moved on but not just by a little bit but by a huge leap. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 19:59:32 GMT
My reply: Big thanks to Jim for sharing his thoughts on my humble system As always, it's a delight having Jim round for a listen. He is as critical as me and more importantly, he has the same idea of sounds good. I am big on hearing the acoustic space the recordings are made in, the effects on the vocals and all thosetiny nuggets of information that create a bigger picture. I will just add a few thoughts about what we discussed and try and remember all the tracks we played. We started of with a listen to Leo Kottke - from spink to correctionville. Link here: I decided to start with track because i wanted to highlight early on that an all Solid State system was capable of producing an Earthy, Bluesy tone. This track does that. We played this via the Pecan Pi. I think this system is really capable of capturing your attention and within the first few bars, i could see Jim moving in time to the track. It's a well recorded track and i highlighted this fact. Next up was Eva Cassidy - Wade in the Water. Link here: I chose this track due to the fact i think it's a really lean recording. I wanted to highlight the differences between the two tracks, tonally. Listening to this track is a bit of a foot-tapper for me but it didn't have that effect on Jim. I didn't expect it to but i felt it was important to show the PecanPi when Audiophile recordings arent used. Next up was Marlon Williams - Silent Passage. Link here: This track instantly caught the ear. I was concerned about the bass in this track but even at the very audible levels we had the system playing at, it never got out of control of "boomy" Seems, as though i had been a little concerned over nothing but i KNOW in a slightly bigger room with a concrete floor and some acoustic treatment, this wouldn't even cross my mind. Jim suggested at this point about the ability to hear the characteristics of the singers voice and also how the shape of their mouth changed the sound. At this juncture, Jim unveiled a copy of a Louis Armstrong LP. He suggested we compare two different versions of "St James Infirmary" One by Peter Schneider and one by Louis himself. Here's the link to the Peter Schneider version, we played via the PecanPi : And here's the Louis Armstrong version: I think Jim said of the The Stimulators version that he could hear down to the tonsils of the singer lol. For me, and Jim i think, there was something magical about the LP and the SIMaudio LP5.3rs really allowed the SP10, PMAT1010 & Kb to really do their thing. Obviously the comparison was apples to Oranges but the Vinyl really did wow! We then played Down in Mississippi by Hans Theesink and Terry Evans on Vinyl. Here's the Link: I love this album. It had everything i have come to expect from this system. Next up was this: Rodrigo y Gabriela - FOC was a track i hadn't heard before. I hadn't realised Jim brought it to try and trip up the system!!! The pure speed and power they get out of their instruments blew me away. At the end, Jim had a look on his face that suggested his mind was blown. It had certainly been a testing track but the system never felt like it had any issue at all. Every note, every tap absolutely everything was organised and audible. Not just Audible but completely coherent and cohesive. I was extremely happy. There was a stage in front of us and the size of it was absolutely believable. I listened as much with my ears as i did my eyes as I watched the sound move about the soundstage. Epic. After a quick break to recover my senses and get a drink, we played this Aldous Harding - Swell does the Skull - Vinyl. A link to the track: This is where the "moment" happened. Throughout the morning, Jim had been listening to "generic" tracks. Ones that he owned, but none that he knew intimately. This track is a staple of his daily audio diet. The build up to this track was spoken with a very obvious affection for it. At the end Jim uttered "well that didn't happen" I knew instantly what he has expected and what hadn't happened. To me, this was a new track and i was listening to the really clever uses of the multitrack vocals. The way at times on the LP she deliberately blew into the Mic as sang to create distortion. Jim on the other other hand had never heard it like this. As we discussed it, Jim self diagnosed the problem. The euphoric influence that his Croft gear (loaded with valves) gives him was not here. Instead Jim got a listen to the recording as it should be. Accurately replayed. We discussed what we had heard and i told him, there's no right or wrong in this game, but valves lie to you lol. I had the exact experience a while back when Angus brought a few bits around, mainly his Avalon Phonostage. I just couldn't ignore what i was missing. We played a couple of tracks after this but i honestly think the realisation/revelation/horror just made them a little insignificant lol. I have to say, i really appreciate the second opinion on the system and the subsequent write up. Thanks Jim. |
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Post by dsjr on Nov 4, 2019 12:46:14 GMT
Biggie, you're very brave having people come round to analyse your stereo and write up the experience. I currently wouldn't dare, although I did sometimes when I had the big ATC actives. Wifey won't let me move my downstairs speakers on just now, so I can't even begin to claw back to my favourite speaker brand just now (via JBL I suspect...).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 13:35:56 GMT
Biggie, you're very brave having people come round to analyse your stereo and write up the experience. I currently wouldn't dare, although I did sometimes when I had the big ATC actives. Wifey won't let me move my downstairs speakers on just now, so I can't even begin to claw back to my favourite speaker brand just now (via JBL I suspect...). Dave,
I have always been a big believer in the merits of bakeoffs, especially where my system is concerned. I have only been in this game for 4 years and I have tried to utilise the experience of those, Like Jim, Alan and Angus, who have had 30 years in the game.
There isn't much out there that Jim hasn't heard and when he visits, the comments are always constructive. I have picked up a great deal from his input and the experience I gained listening to his system and the system of his friend, Steve, Who has multiple systems, each costing more than my house! (£150k+)
I have also never been afraid to open up the system or my cables to those who wish to evaluate and share their opinions, and I welcome it. Every bit of feedback about anything I made is 100% genuine, whether it's good or bad. If anyone fancies a listen, I am always up for it.
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Post by dsjr on Nov 4, 2019 15:46:04 GMT
Try to hear what dealers are doing as well, even if the noises they demonstrate are awful to your ears. I don't mean book a dem and waste their time as we used to get, but a casual listen here and there used to help me as well as it's doing now in re-confirming where I should be going for myself, funds permitting. I mean, I'm even starting a cobbled-together Linn LP12 project for the future and believe me, you'd NEVER have heard me say that five to ten years ago... I'm not as closed minded as you may think, just totally skint right now (audio sell-offs wouldn't go into other audio purchases sadly, so I need to tread carefully).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 16:20:09 GMT
Try to hear what dealers are doing as well, even if the noises they demonstrate are awful to your ears. I don't mean book a dem and waste their time as we used to get, but a casual listen here and there used to help me as well as it's doing now in re-confirming where I should be going for myself, funds permitting. I mean, I'm even starting a cobbled-together Linn LP12 project for the future and believe me, you'd NEVER have heard me say that five to ten years ago... I'm not as closed minded as you may think, just totally skint right now (audio sell-offs wouldn't go into other audio purchases sadly, so I need to tread carefully). I don't really get to dealers tbh.
A lot of this experience has come from helping the designers of gear. Not in any technical aspect as such, but from a listening perspective. I did learn a great deal when I went up to MCRU and I wouldn't mind going up to another Yorkshire HiFi club meeting and see what's out there.
I have been mega lucky in that I get loads of gear to audition. I get things sent from all over the world at times. I will hopefully be receiving a relay based Volume control to transplant in to my preamp and compare against the Khozmo. This could be in the next few weeks. Also waiting on a phonostage and also trying to encourage Tom of Neurochrome to develop a phonostage. I'd be very interested in trying that. A good friend of mine, Nigel, always asks if I want to loan his gear too and his revolving door spins quicker than mine. Almost everything Alan repairs gets a listen, if it's of interest too.
Trouble is, I can't always share what I am trialling, which as they may be prototypes is only fair. But trust me, I am always auditioning gear.
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Post by sq225917 on Nov 4, 2019 16:38:25 GMT
Excellent stuff always good to get a set of critical ears on things
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 17:17:05 GMT
Excellent stuff always good to get a set of critical ears on things It certainly is.
Shame things didn't quite come together before the Sheffield bakeoff, would have been interesting to bring the whole rig up there!
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Post by sq225917 on Nov 4, 2019 18:02:50 GMT
Next year.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 18:31:48 GMT
That's a possibility. I may need a van lol |
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Post by jimbo on Feb 15, 2020 18:31:04 GMT
Nice you popped this on the site Oli. It was a great day and another big leap forward. Considering your last session with sq225917 I think the Pecan pi will live on a bit longer as maybe the Bigbottle 3 phono stage and as you have said the Neurochrome is going nowhere other than to my house when you sell it!
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Post by firebottle on Feb 15, 2020 19:04:50 GMT
Ha, dream on James. You won't be getting Oli's 686 whilst there is breath in his body, IMO of course.
I think I need to bring the dual mono 86 around for you to hear, plus I would like to hear that Rodrigo y Gabriela track.
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Post by jimbo on Feb 15, 2020 19:11:59 GMT
Ha, dream on James. You won't be getting Oli's 686 whilst there is breath in his body, IMO of course. I think I need to bring the dual mono 86 around for you to hear, plus I would like to hear that Rodrigo y Gabriela track. The dual mono 86 won't have enough power for my grand plan!  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 15, 2020 19:50:35 GMT
Nice you popped this on the site Oli. It was a great day and another big leap forward. Considering your last session with sq225917 I think the Pecan pi will live on a bit longer as maybe the Bigbottle 3 phono stage and as you have said the Neurochrome is going nowhere other than to my house when you sell it! It was an enjoyable day wasnt it. I particularly enjoyed the look on your face after that FOC track. I have very little inclination to change anything atm. I am thoroughly enjoying the pecanpi and even the Ian Canada DAC visited, I'm still not sure I'd enjoy it as much. |
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Post by jimbo on Mar 8, 2020 8:18:59 GMT
Although I had predominantly been interested in listening to Oliver's new cartridge the HA103 SEL LOMC I was interested in other parts of the system that Oliver has upgraded since my last visit so I only briefly mentioned the Bigbottle 3 Phono stage. This is now housed in a very cool looking enclosure and is minimalist looking. Oliver had been using the Simaudio LP5 phono stage on my previous visit which did not really give a good account of Olis vinyl front end. As he would say it was a "bottleneck", this became very apparent on my visit on Saturday. The difference the Bigbottle 3 made to the vinyl replay was astounding and elevated his analogue system some way beyond his digital set up in my opinion. OK the new cartridge did have a big bearing on the sound but it would not have performed as well without this new version of the Bigbottle3 phono stage. This phono stage has allowed Olis vinyl to sound even more transparent with incredible amounts of detail, fantastic stereo imaging and the ability to let the whole dynamic range of a recording shine through but in a super controlled manner. Bass was tight, treble sweet but incisive and never once did I feel there was anything missing or being held back. I was also very impressed with the SP10 set up. I know Oliver has had much work done to this turntable to get it too the level it is now. It effortlessly allows playback without making any significant imprint on the sound of its own, something which we discussed when I was talking about Direct Drive turntables vs Belters. My own VPI Scout by comparison does probably give vinyl a little nudge is some areas, which i actually like but there is no dispute what a great DD turntable brings to the party. I love the absolute pitch control and the gravity they bring to Bass and the bottom region in general so i may well add one to my own system in future! I feel now with the SP10 up front now sporting the fabulous HA103 SEL LOMC cartridge and fettled AT tonearm together with the Bigbottle 3 phono stage and the Neurochrome amps and fantastic Mordant Short 880 speakers, Oliver has a system that feels almost complete and works with excellent synergy. There is almost nothing you could dislike about it form a personal point of view especially when playing vinyl. We did venture back to some digital music via the Pecan Pi and I was very impressed especially when it was fed great material like the M.A recordings download of some Argentinian music. Simply glorious but then this was recorded and mastered by one of the best digital engineers in the business -Todd Garfinkle. However when returning back to vinyl I felt there was always something missing to digital which did not engage you in the same way. There is a wholesomeness and a richer "Being There" sound to vinyl which digital does not achieve. Sorry i won't go on about this as I know lots of folk think the opposite. But all i would say if you sat in the chair in Oliver's listening room and listened to the two as I did I think you could only come to one conclusion. What a fantastic system Oliver but I know it won't stay the same for long..... |
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Post by firebottle on Mar 8, 2020 8:27:46 GMT
Yes always tweaking for even greater performance. Watch that space .........
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 8, 2020 8:41:55 GMT
Although I had predominantly been interested in listening to Oliver's new cartridge the HA103 SEL LOMC I was interested in other parts of the system that Oliver has upgraded since my last visit so I only briefly mentioned the Bigbottle 3 Phono stage. This is now housed in a very cool looking enclosure and is minimalist looking. Oliver had been using the Simaudio LP5 phono stage on my previous visit which did not really give a good account of Olis vinyl front end. As he would say it was a "bottleneck", this became very apparent on my visit on Saturday. The difference the Bigbottle 3 made to the vinyl replay was astounding and elevated his analogue system some way beyond his digital set up in my opinion. OK the new cartridge did have a big bearing on the sound but it would not have performed as well without this new version of the Bigbottle3 phono stage. This phono stage has allowed Olis vinyl to sound even more transparent with incredible amounts of detail, fantastic stereo imaging and the ability to let the whole dynamic range of a recording shine through but in a super controlled manner. Bass was tight, treble sweet but incisive and never once did I feel there was anything missing or being held back. I was also very impressed with the SP10 set up. I know Oliver has had much work done to this turntable to get it too the level it is now. It effortlessly allows playback without making any significant imprint on the sound of its own, something which we discussed when I was talking about Direct Drive turntables vs Belters. My own VPI Scout by comparison does probably give vinyl a little nudge is some areas, which i actually like but there is no dispute what a great DD turntable brings to the party. I love the absolute pitch control and the gravity they bring to Bass and the bottom region in general so i may well add one to my own system in future! I feel now with the SP10 up front now sporting the fabulous HA103 SEL LOMC cartridge and fettled AT tonearm together with the Bigbottle 3 phono stage and the Neurochrome amps and fantastic Mordant Short 880 speakers, Oliver has a system that feels almost complete and works with excellent synergy. There is almost nothing you could dislike about it form a personal point of view especially when playing vinyl. We did venture back to some digital music via the Pecan Pi and I was very impressed especially when it was fed great material like the M.A recordings download of some Argentinian music. Simply glorious but then this was recorded and mastered by one of the best digital engineers in the business -Todd Garfinkle. However when returning back to vinyl I felt there was always something missing to digital which did not engage you in the same way. There is a wholesomeness and a richer "Being There" sound to vinyl which digital does not achieve. Sorry i won't go on about this as I know lots of folk think the opposite. But all i would say if you sat in the chair in Oliver's listening room and listened to the two as I did I think you could only come to one conclusion. What a fantastic system Oliver but I know it won't stay the same for long..... Thanks for the kind words Jim, The Vinyl does seem to have come together in the last few weeks. You are right that the cart has made a big contribution to that but for me, it's like finding the last bit of the puzzle, without knowing it was missing to begin with. The PecanPi didnt get a fair crack of the whip imo. Its sounded better than that but the cable breaking and then taking until 23:00 to rebuild the library, made it impossible to hear at it's best. I dont think you'd place it on a par with the Vinyl, even at it's best, I wouldnt. What it does do though, is make Digital a viable listen. Makes it enjoyable and as I have said many times, its apples v oranges. Personally, I rate the PecanPi very highly. The Bigbottle MK3 has been a really worthwhile project. I've tried to beat it....the only thing that has come in to my house and clearly demonstrated abilities that were of interest, was the Paradise SQ brought round. But it was a different sound, a different delivery and ultimately something I'd have in addition to the BB3, rather than instead of. I love it, I know I make them but I just enjoy what it does to such a degree that I'll always have one here. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 8, 2020 8:43:03 GMT
Yes always tweaking for even greater performance. Watch that space ......... Sometimes the little things make a big difference! |
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Post by jimbo on Mar 8, 2020 8:51:59 GMT
To be fair you are right old we did not give the pecan Pi a fair enough listen compared to vinyl and I would not dispute how good it is. For the money and in comparison with anything else I have heard it is amazing and i would be quite happy to have one in my system for digital playback.
Thanks once again for letting me listen. Yes I was shocked that we had let 4 hours slip past that quick!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 8, 2020 9:22:38 GMT
To be fair you are right old we did not give the pecan Pi a fair enough listen compared to vinyl and I would not dispute how good it is. For the money and in comparison with anything else I have heard it is amazing and i would be quite happy to have one in my system for digital playback. Thanks once again for letting me listen. Yes I was shocked that we had let 4 hours slip past that quick! It was a circumstance that I lost my usual connectivity andvi wasnt happy with the sound myself, which led itbit being short lived. We will get everything to your house once you have it and you can see what happens. |
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On entering Olivers listening room I could see another selection of black and silver boxes which have replaced the previous set of black and silver boxes but what immediately drew my attention was the absolutely beautiful pair of Mordant Short Performance 880 speakers. These look of the highest quality and are superbly built and finished. The photo does not really do justice too them. I will talk about their performance later.
