Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 6, 2018 11:22:07 GMT
It might be a passing fancy, but my wife just put an early Nelly Furtado album on and it took me right back to when I had Isobarik DMS/PMS. Nelly sounded mighty through them. Yeah I know they have enormous flaws, but they also have something gripping, palpable and addictive.
I have only owned that one pair and they weren't stock. The former owner "upgraded" from earlier models and hated the Hiquphons. He has the dealer refit 4 Scanspeaks instead. Now I've heard many Isobariks bit it ain't the same as having them at home, if I dabble (and I think I will) I'd like to avoid getting a pir I felt were markedly inferior.
Any tips about which vintage Isobariks to seek out and which to avoid? Finding a pair of DMS/PMS may be lengthy and expensive, and even then they will be diffent due to the Hiquphons. I can always change the tweeters to get exactly what I had before but it won't be financially wise.
Any thoughts or advice would be welcome.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 6, 2018 11:27:29 GMT
Forgive the dated decor and crap room, but this wasn't long after my Uni days and I was pretty skint.
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Post by dsjr on May 6, 2018 18:33:11 GMT
AAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!
Bloody 'Briks… I had three passive DMS pairs from 1980 to 1986 and the best ones by miles were the 1984 era pair with smooth mid drivers, mdf boxes and 90 degree XLR's. later ones may well have been 'better,' but I never really warmed to them.
Of the early chipboard ones, the active PMS's were by far better, as the innards were more carefully made (Linn did most of the internal partitioning I believe) and the drivers were reportedly better matched up. In the right room, an active chipboard pair (Naim bolt-up 250's, three Krell KSA 50's and six 135's) could all but disappear from the music making. The chipboard passives were horribly coloured in my experience, sounding hollow and 'cuppy' on voice and bass varied a bit too I remember.
MDF active models post 1983 I'm not so sure about. The tweeter was changed and traded chrome plated string tones for rough steel ones The passives were much better than before and my August '84 ones were quite smooth...
Things went pair shaped in 1985. KEF fugged up the B110 mid driver and Kans, 'Briks and LS3/5A's were ruined by the changes which added a ringy hard toned screech to anything upper-midrange in frequency (think David Gilmour guitars when he's really 'into one'). My third pair were bought by Jimmy Hughes to do an appreciation on, but they were so bad he passed them to me pretty damned quick (they were black which was the fashion for a while back then) and I only kept them six months or so.
Later 'Briks had major changes. The cabs were altered to put the crossovers in a sectioned off cavity at the lower rear so easy to convert for active or passive and I believe they were more consistent from pair to pair as well, the mid drivers were also changed to a smoother version of the B110 and slightly after, added panel mods to the stands as pictured prevented the lateral shimmy they could exhibit and eventually, heavy duty 4 ohm crossovers went into the bottom of the stand (instead of twin 8 ohm crossovers paralleled up). It's my view that time had caught up by the late 80's and the rise and rise of ATC monitors finished them off. Linn went into the Keltik and Kaber thingies, which were worse and with a very dirty sound all their lives - The front baffles were a plastic moulding on the Keltik and the drive units much more cheaply sourced from China I seem to remember. The early mesh covered ceramic tweeters in Kabers and Keltiks were nassssssty but th elater ribbed ones often fitted as replacements were much better. Both these have to be active to work at all in my experience - the keltik was active only I believe.
Is the above ok to post? To finish, an old friend has a little used pair of immaculate walnut passives stored in their boxes since 1988 and from the golden age (August 1984) and for a while I was tempted to see if he'd part with them. I don't have an amp able to drive the 3.3 ohm load though...
To finish, the semi-omni layout suits some rooms and falls foul of others. the bass was dry and very taut, but how much bass you actually heard depended on the room again and also what the LP12 fruitbox was doing. A pair I heard weekly in 1983/84 sounded fab with dull cartridges but anything 'neutral' made them too thin toned, although an Asak T was passable due to its precise nature. I never heard this pair with a CD source though.
My advice is the same as for SBL's (another can-o-worms which can sound great away from a CB naim system and in a well damped room). Don't spend much on them and avoid the silly money so-called 'updates' the slurpers are trying to get on eBay.. You can buy early-ish ATC 100 actives for three grand or so and I promise you, they're in a totally different world to any Isobarik even without the SL drivers and new tweeter...
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 7, 2018 21:15:17 GMT
Thanks Dave. I somehow missed this post, but it's a mine of great info, thanks. I completely agree about Kabers being "dirty sounding" and also SBLs being a different speaker when used away from Naim Chrome Bumper amps..
I was never lucky enough to hear a Linn active system but you've hot me thinking about it. I once had 4 LK2s and an LK1 but never hung onto them long enough to find speakers worth going active. They would likely be my cheapest route to active if I do it, knowing that I like those amps,,would it be worthwhile? It's a bloody cheap active system if I do it,
I never liked the LK85 or LK100 but I'm open to advice. Exposure active would be my ideal, but my chances of getting the amps and active crossover are probably lower than a lottery win.
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Post by dsjr on May 8, 2018 10:34:13 GMT
You've got me reminiscing about a late 70's Isobarik tri-amp system used with bolt-up Naims a KJ-colleague once had. This particular set-up used in a favourable room with LP12/Grace/Asak T and a Luxman T-12 tuner sounded absolutely enchanting. Going to an Ittok messed it up in the bass for a while, but I'm not going there just yet.
Another friend with a good room at the time, had a classic era (from March 83 to late 84 or so) MDF passive pair with CB 250, 32.5, HiCap and TWO LP12's, one with Ittok and Asak T and the other with LVV and R100 for singles and so on. This passive system also 'did it' really well if not with the delicate clarity of the active ones at their best.
Oh hell. I'd love to hear that late 70' active system again. Despite the limitations on the 12s preamp, twin snaps supplies and Naim interconnect issues, this system was MUSICAL and immediately drew you in to the performance and mix. Being lively, albums like Siouxsie & banshees 'Ju Ju' came to life. Off The Wall by Michael Jackson showed what a good interpreter of songs he was (my passive 'briks of the time dirtied it up too much). One day, instead of the often used mid-week Dave Jensen Radio London show to warm the system up, we started a listening session with the tuner which was set to Radio 3 and some sitar music. I swear the sound was as if the player was sat on the floor between the speakers and playing with such feeling. I've rarely heard Isobariks do this disappearing act before or since.
My colleague moved to Oxfordshire from North London in the mid 80's and chose to sell this system, replacing it with a lovely looking rosewood pair of passive Isobariks driven by a Linn Lk1 and two LK2's (original issue), one single channel used per side. Looked more up to date I agree but the magic simply wasn't there (those bolt-up 250's could sound magical into any speaker apart from floppy transmission lines I remember) and this was traded for pr@t in the CB models we found). In 1988, he went the Absolute Sounds route with a Micro Seiki CD player (the top version of mine), Krell pre and power and Apogee Duetta Signatures, which could again enchant when warmed up (Karen Wheeler - Don't Quit was amazing as was Neneh Cherry's album of that time).
The funny thing with these speakers. In active mode, despite not being 'neutral,' they could disappear if the room wasn't messing things up and they did everything that 'BBC Boomers' didn't do well back then. I got this kind of involvement with the active ATC 100A's I had and loved, but since, all the gear I've had (loads as I couldn't get the sound back) was as gas-light, hence the reminiscing.
Shall I take the rose tinted specs off now?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 8, 2018 12:16:04 GMT
Wow, no wonder you want to share your experiences. That post really came alive for me. I have never heard Isobariks in active mode but it sounds like something I will have to do before I'm past it or the gear isn't there to grab. I only wish I could do a JMH and use 3 X KSA50! My only experience of Linns in active mode was 3 X LK100 driving Kabers, I heard those in Stereo Stereo for an extended listen and then again when a mate bought the same combo. The only word that springs to mind is "painful". I can't make that my last and only experience of active
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Post by dsjr on May 8, 2018 13:55:10 GMT
Kabers were of and before their time I think. Early passive ones with retro-fitted later ribbed front tweeter could sound almost sweet we discovered, and they needed to be bi-wired at least to minimise electrical back emf from bass to mid driver (easy to show if the speakers are single wired). Active seemed to emphasise their bad points and Linn's amps were hideously dirty sounding too by that point, Early Kabers really were painful to listen to at the time - ugh! Keilidhs sounded excellent fully active with two or three LK140's, but used passive, the midrange disappeared I remember from mine, which I never used actively at home - the tweeters were too low for near-field use too I remember - mine were late ones with Ku-Stone bases!
Don't ever dismiss active driving. If the active crossovers are properly designed, they don't have to be sonically intrusive, but it takes a killed designer to do it right imo. Far more beneficial to me is the amp not looking at an intrusive crossover network and if you ever had a comparison, perhaps you'd feel the same. Trouble is, any problems in the drive units are revealed in all their starkness when going active. Not having a crossover at all is obviously best of all, as long as other compromises don't get in the way.
How much do 'Briks go for thee days?
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Post by antonio on May 8, 2018 14:38:15 GMT
My brother had 3 Linn Klout's driving active Kabers and the buggers would still not come to life.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 8, 2018 17:12:27 GMT
My brother had 3 Linn Klout's driving active Kabers and the buggers would still not come to life. I just don't "get" Kabers at all. They are dead sounding in the lower end and lower mid, they are shut in sounding in the remaining midband and so painful at the top, like chalk across a blackboard. There aren't many speakers I find unlistenable but Kabers are top of the pile
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 8, 2018 17:30:00 GMT
Isobariks seem to go fir anything from £400-£1000 but there's not much logic in pricing, it seems to depend on how much the seller wants the space and how hard they are to get to in order to collect.
They aren't easy to carry. I remember moving house with mine and not letting the removals men touch them. I carried one out the front door, down the steps and along the drive. I got about 10 feet away from the van and felt like something in my arms was about to snap. Only my love of them kept me from dropping them...... then I had to move the other one! I'm 12 years older now, so I will need to love them even more if I'm moving them around!
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Post by pauld on May 10, 2018 20:16:26 GMT
I’d never heard a pair until I heard my friend, Mike’s which sounded pretty good on the context of his system at the time.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 10, 2018 20:47:53 GMT
For me, it's been like Malaria. Once bitten, I have remained susceptible to Isobariks for life. Every so often it flares up!
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2018 22:31:45 GMT
For me, it's been like Malaria. Once bitten, I have remained susceptible to Isobariks for life. Every so often it flares up! With me it’s more like baldness. Once it happened I was never going to go back to the way I was
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 23:24:32 GMT
I’d never heard a pair until I heard my friend, Mike’s which sounded pretty good on the context of his system at the time. Was that MikeMusic? I am sure he had 3 pairs at one stage. I would have been tempted to try an ambisonic setup if I had 2 pairs.
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