Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 8, 2023 20:39:39 GMT
0-30hrs
It's not always fun listening to new kit, especially when it's been sat in a freezing cold van/warehouse, and the Purifi was no exception.
From the off it was obviously in need of some time to physically warm up, as the sound was quite lean and mean. It wasn't terrible, and the fact I could hear the potential performance lurking there meant I was quietly confident that this could be a very good Amplifier.
I left it on and playing and went out to football with the lad, so in total it had about three hours from cold to warm up before I gave it a serious listen. Thankfully, what I heard originally was not what greeted me upon my return home, and potential was being revealed to be promise of good performance.
I blasted through about 3 albums before the kids went to bed, and out of the three, two sounded wonderful. The third, which had sounded wonderful through the 686, did not sound anywhere near as good.
Robbie Robertson - Somewhere on the Crazy river...not everyone's cup of tea, but now a firm favourite test track of mine (thanks Steve) sounded decidedly small. Gone were the expanses of soundstage depth and width, replaced by a fairly flatish stage, with smaller drums, like they had shrunk.
I played another couple of tracks, and the same experience.
I went to bed feeling a little deflated.
Next day, home from work and ready for a listen.
We're at 24hrs plugged in, and I played the same track again....the same outcome. On the positive side, the lack of change meant the amp was stable at least.
I sat through a few more tracks and a thought occurred...."try a different digital cable"
So I did, I tried all combos and ended up with the Wireworld Eclipse 7 AES cables in. This proved to be the best combination of cables I own for this particular setup. Listening again to the same tracks now started to feel more "acceptable" more familiar. I got to work with some critical listening.
To save boring you with track by track blows, I will just surmise where I ended up, to this point.
The Purifi is an extremely transparent Amplifier. As of right now, I believe it to be more transparent than the 686. The way it grips the LF is absolutely unnecessary! Lol. It's extremely taut and the kick drum lands with power, precision and is devoid of any overhang or bloat. The LF reminds me of that on the Arke Vader's, especially in the way it starts and stops on a hair. It's simply unreal in that aspect.
Tonally, it's not quite thin, but it not rich or lush. It's fairly dry, and whereas the 686 may sound a bit meatier, fleshier in comparison, the Purifi is fat free, nimble and agile, but with impact and dynamics. There's great weight to drums and anything hit with force and the HF and Mids remain clean, organised and fuss free. cymbals and metallic objects don't have the bulk that the 686 delivers, but nothing is splashing of tizzy.
Just fat free.
It's quiet difficult to really pinpoint how it sounds totally, because the other thing I am yet to try and describe is how it presents music, which is very different to the 686.
The 686 presentation ls to deliver an insight into the layering of multiple tracks, but does so in a way where they are seamlessly stitched together to form one whole result. The Purifi doesn't do this, you can see the seams! It's like it plays the multi track recordings at the same time, and you can quite easily hear the separate tracks. It forms a song...but it sounds like it's made of completely separate pieces. This is not a negative btw.
Try to imagine those old black and white Mickey mouse cartoons, where the train clicks and clanks, then the coal shovel makes another separate noise, which happens to be in time with the train noises, then the steam starts and that's in time, all making a percussive track, then Mickey starts whistling to the noises and before your eyes a song is made.
You can see it's all separate things happening, but there's a very clear product of all the noises being made together.
That's probably the only way I can describe the Purifi. It's so bloody transparent and clear that it's devoid of footprint or flavour and it's like every song you hear is unraveled in front of you, layer by layer, but the song is still there. It's pretty bonkers and very addictive. I like it a lot.
There's a lot more listening to do here, but so far, the Purifi is proving to be a real top class Amplifier. It's already demonstrated that its on a level with the 686, probably ahead in some areas, probably behind in others, which is to be expected, but to be in the same bracket of performance......well, I didn't think would be the case, especially considering the 686 was twice the price to make.
Overall, early impressions are very positive and I am enthusiastic to hear it again tomorrow.
However, it''s given me an idea..a very drastic idea.
More to follow.
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Post by hifinutt on Nov 8, 2023 20:58:05 GMT
Fab , thanks for posting .had loads of class d over the years .sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt
I dont know why but i guess its synergy
Lots of stuff seems to have purifi in now
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Post by electronumpty on Nov 8, 2023 22:22:24 GMT
However, it''s given me an idea..a very drastic idea. More to follow. Don't tell me, something to do with a power supply?  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 8, 2023 22:24:55 GMT
However, it''s given me an idea..a very drastic idea. More to follow. Don't tell me, something to do with a power supply? Ha! No. Something more drastic than I think anyone will expect. I am looking into something at the moment, will share when I know more. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 8, 2023 22:26:15 GMT
Fab , thanks for posting .had loads of class d over the years .sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt I dont know why but i guess its synergy Lots of stuff seems to have purifi in now Yeah, market leading performance measurements for a very appealing price. What's not to like for brands that use this as the heart of their amps! |
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Post by misterc on Nov 8, 2023 23:00:46 GMT
You just need to find the right pwm unit and you won't look back
I actually don't find the purifi that transparent just nicely open, the 3d is lacking a lot however as I mentioned it caused you to think a little
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Post by hifinutt on Nov 9, 2023 14:51:39 GMT
"the 3d is lacking a lot however as I mentioned it caused you to think a little"
what does that mean Mr c ?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 9, 2023 15:25:34 GMT
You just need to find the right pwm unit and you won't look back I actually don't find the purifi that transparent just nicely open, the 3d is lacking a lot however as I mentioned it caused you to think a little I don't agree Tony. Of course, there will be amplifiers out there that do specific things better than the Purifi or the 686, but I'd love to see something that does EVERYTHING better than either of them. There is absolutely nothing I dislike about either Amplifier and would be quite happy to spend the long term with either of them. 3D....seems fine to me, but my room isnt the best place to judge that for any amplifier. I get a general sense, and as of now it isn't highlighting itself as a problem. The purpose for this purchase hasn't been revealed yet! It's not what you think |
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Post by electronumpty on Nov 9, 2023 15:43:08 GMT
. The purpose for this purchase hasn't been revealed yet! It's not what you think Urmm, lemme guess🤔 - Alarm clock? Egg timer? Scarecrow? Car horn replacement? Door stop? 🤣 |
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Post by misterc on Nov 9, 2023 16:23:12 GMT
You just need to find the right pwm unit and you won't look back I actually don't find the purifi that transparent just nicely open, the 3d is lacking a lot however as I mentioned it caused you to think a little I don't agree Tony. Of course, there will be amplifiers out there that do specific things better than the Purifi or the 686, but I'd love to see something that does EVERYTHING better than either of them.
Oli,
This is where is life gets interesting  when you move into the next stage of reply all items will be in focus and the weak points are easily indentified what ever they may be in each system.
The journey you will find a entertaining and never ending one I feel as you go through each phase of improvement.
However I stand by my comments on each amp, although you have to take into account the outlay of each item and what exactly it's paired with and connected to (as well as the room). Also remember we all have different points of reference.
But this is the fun part for yourself (and others) going through allof the motions to get to that current state of playback, it's the journey that matters for many, many individuals and that is the most important part of the whole process imho.
I am very lucky having been do pretty much most of the available accepted roads and other other rabbit holes, before deciding they only way to achieve a real sound is to carve your own path, luckily enough I found this early on.
On Tuesday I visited a new gent with quite a system, he asked for a for RTA and power analysis on his home supply.
Quite frankly its was distrubing, the sheer amount of detail this system delivered was astounding, really something else, even more so than the Wadax, utterly grain free and headroom that God would wpuld begruding admit was 'acceptable' easily one of the best systems I have ever listened to.
Never tiring or Ineed to trun that down at any point, the owner made the observation he felt it was lacking some involvement. I would suggest that was a honest observation, now he has gone down a rabbit hole he didn't even consider.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 9, 2023 19:26:18 GMT
You know Tony, I like you....but your posts about my amplification read In quite a condescending way.
I'm not sure if you meant to dismiss this hard working, proud, working class man's level of system, accompanying kit, and room as shite, but it certainly read that way.
What might be a better approach, is to start actually proffering up some recommendations if you think you have a candidate for better amplification performance under £3k.
Any issues I have had, have already been sorted by changing digital cables, as i had already stated elsewhere on the forum. I also haven't had any amplifier issues since owning 686 amplifiers. The issue was digital front end related, and was not an issue when the TEAC CDT was here. If the amp was the issue...it would have been an issue then too. It wasn't.
This is a forum full of people who are trying to do the best they can, with what they have, wherever they can shoehorn it in, in (mostly) shared domestic environments. The goal here is to avoid b#llocks, smoke and mirrors, snake oil, and hifi guru-ism, to try build individualistic systems that have real VFMVP (value for money Vs Performance) and Musically engaging substance.
IMHO, the 686 is THE amplifier for exactly that purpose, and I'll defend it to the death because no commercial amplifier for £5k (new) or less, gets anywhere near it, when a 686 is built correctly.
It may not be the best amplifier in every parameter, ever in people's opinions, and it may not tick everyones endorphin releasing boxes, but in the entire time I've owned them and listened to them, nothing I have heard under £5k has been better, given me as many goosebumps or more enjoyment.
The Purifi is an absolute cracker too, and I am already very attached to it.
I stand by what I say too.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 10, 2023 16:47:32 GMT
So, getting this thread back on track>
I am still not used to the Purifi. The sheer amount of previously unheard snippets in songs is making for slow progress through the albums I have queued in the X50D as every now and again i end up listening to the same bits of songs repeatedly.
Listening to "Tie Up my Hands" by Starsailor is proving to be one of numerous tracks that have details or layers of vocals i haven't picked up on before. This if course wouldn't be much to worry about, but when you have heard these songs as many times as I, it's a little disconcerting. However, it's great fun and exactly what i want to do, as getting to know the songs you love on such an in-depth level is fantastic. BTW, "Way to Fall"......spinetingling.
One album that has seriously benefitted form this album in my rook is Beck - "Morning Phase"
I adore this album, buts its a heavy mix, and in a room that can excite easily, the Purifi's grip of the LF is allowing me to crank it up and hear EVERYTHING! The way it pushes the kick drum out into the room with that grip is outstanding. It's easy for the mind to convert that energy into a mental image of physicality. Superb.
Now onto "Fleeting Mind" by Ocean Colour Scene and the "touch" of the musicians and their individual styles are being displayed before me. Crikey, this is good.
Off to listen.
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Post by hifinutt on Nov 10, 2023 17:02:53 GMT
"the 3d is lacking a lot however as I mentioned it caused you to think a little"
what does that mean Mr c ?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 11, 2023 18:49:58 GMT
This is probably going to be the last part of this minor review of my listening experiences, as today I got a chance to do the kind of listening that had been missing: HIGH VOLLUME
Thankfully the neighbours FINALLY went out for a few hours and I got to really get things going. I went though a seriously eclectic mix of material from Kenny Ball, to Radiohead, to The Beatles, to Heart and all the way round ending up with Dvorak and Lambchop.
The best kit makes for enjoyable sessions, and todays was extremely good fun. I played every track I could think of that has, in some way, been very difficult to enjoy in the past. Albeit these days many of those "torture tracks" are less torturous, thanks to the phenomenal performance I enjoy from my chain of wares. The room treatment has been significant in this too, so it wasn't easy to fault find today, but I'll do my best.
So, Here you go:
Control & Organisation: Even at room pressurising levels, and nearly beyond, the Purifi delivers the same level of control and organisation in the soundstage as if you were listening at half the volume. It's ability to grip and control the music is extremely beneficial to micro and macro details that would otherwise be swamped in wallows of other frequencies, overhang and boom. The clarity this gives to the recording is at a higher level than any other amplifier I have had here, by a margin. In another room and system, this may not be the case, as the Neurochrome 686 is absolutely right there in the measurements, but that class D grip is doing the Purifi well here, and its helping to keep things from spilling over. It's noticeable, and it's ahead of the 686 because of that.
Transparency, Musicality and Tone: The ability of the Purifi to marry good quality tone and uber transparency is a rarity in the realms of amplification. It isn't every day you hear an amplifier that can make brass sound raspy and bodied, yet be so clean as to allow you to hear the p's and T's as the singers lips peel apart, and then give you fairly full bodied piano WITHOUT sounding hard, etched or fatiguing. It's a truly unreal experience to hear all of that in such clear and vivid terms, and to be able to do so for hours on end without fatigue. If you want unrivalled access to the mix, recording, and pure unadulterated, explicit insight into the inner sanctum of what that microphone picked up at the studio, you will do well to beat this amplifier. It's a microscope into things you didn't have access to before, and it's truly got my respect. However, in order to get that there is a trade off, and it's traded a little richness, or texture to do it. That's not to say it's lean or sterile, just that if you are expecting Conrad Johnson levels of body and texture, you won't get that here. It's a drier sound, but not grainy, not clinical or cold, but there is zero body fat here. In some systems i can foresee this being an issue, and in others i can see it being a welcome addition.
Todays session was around three hours, and i didn't skip tracks because they sounded too strident or edgy, in fact everything sounded great. The chair was rocking and the feet were tapping. Can you ask for more than that?
Soundstage and imaging: Despite some reports of the Purifi being less 3D than desired, I haven't actually noticed much of an issue here. What i have noticed is that compared to the 686, the Purifi doesn't have the depth (front to back) that I have been used to with the 686. However, the soundstage is wider than the speakers, and the music i have listened to has been hanging in the ether to the same degree as the 686, maybe more so. The recent discover of Radioheads - OK Computer has given me umpteen WOW moments and it's the way the mix is floating around the room that's doing it. Personally, yes, i can see that listening to Sera Una Noche on the 686 has more space around the musicians, but its a modicum, and its highly likely to be something that could be sorted with a LPSU in the Purifi. The same thing happened with the 686, so i am not compared to condemn it for that.
The Verdict:
IMO, the Purifi (as standard) is a phenomenal achievement. It's VFMVP (Value for money Vs Performance) is quite simply unheard of, and so rare in the extreme that it almost begs the question of "how do i buy a better new amplifier for £1k? The answer is, you can't.
If I were to own the Purifi long term (I might do), my plan would be/is to remove the brass headers on each of the boards, replace them with solid core copper links between the PCBS, and solder the links in place. I would also put a seriously beefy and CLEAN LPSU in. Then, i would sit back and indulge in the ridiculously good amplifier you have created for around £1500 (DIY). Based on experience, i believe doing this would improve tonality, improve soundstage space, and improve overall musicality, just like it did with the 686. If you were to do that, i honestly believe this amplifier would take the listener to heights they didn't believe £1500 could get them to.
The road of hifi seems to be a well trodden one with the same old kit being passed between people for ever increasing sums of money. The Purifi (and 686) are a way off that and into VFMVP heaven.
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Post by cliffy on Nov 12, 2023 12:14:17 GMT
The Verdict: IMO, the Purifi (as standard) is a phenomenal achievement. It's VFMVP (Value for money Vs Performance) is quite simply unheard of, and so rare in the extreme that it almost begs the question of "how do i buy a better new amplifier for £1k? The answer is, you can't. If I were to own the Purifi long term (I might do), my plan would be/is to remove the brass headers on each of the boards, replace them with solid core copper links between the PCBS, and solder the links in place. I would also put a seriously beefy and CLEAN LPSU in. Then, i would sit back and indulge in the ridiculously good amplifier you have created for around £1500 (DIY). Based on experience, i believe doing this would improve tonality, improve soundstage space, and improve overall musicality, just like it did with the 686. If you were to do that, i honestly believe this amplifier would take the listener to heights they didn't believe £1500 could get them to. The road of hifi seems to be a well trodden one with the same old kit being passed between people for ever increasing sums of money. The Purifi (and 686) are a way off that and into VFMVP heaven. Hi Oliver, I must admit I wasn't expecting the Purifi to compete this good against your beloved 686,interesting and also maybe the Potential for the Purifi to get even closer to the 686, with those couple of mods that you mention above.
Oliver, can I asked which Purifi amp we are talking about? It's been on my mind for an amp upgrade, so this Purifi could be a possibility. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 12, 2023 16:40:08 GMT
The Verdict: IMO, the Purifi (as standard) is a phenomenal achievement. It's VFMVP (Value for money Vs Performance) is quite simply unheard of, and so rare in the extreme that it almost begs the question of "how do i buy a better new amplifier for £1k? The answer is, you can't. If I were to own the Purifi long term (I might do), my plan would be/is to remove the brass headers on each of the boards, replace them with solid core copper links between the PCBS, and solder the links in place. I would also put a seriously beefy and CLEAN LPSU in. Then, i would sit back and indulge in the ridiculously good amplifier you have created for around £1500 (DIY). Based on experience, i believe doing this would improve tonality, improve soundstage space, and improve overall musicality, just like it did with the 686. If you were to do that, i honestly believe this amplifier would take the listener to heights they didn't believe £1500 could get them to. The road of hifi seems to be a well trodden one with the same old kit being passed between people for ever increasing sums of money. The Purifi (and 686) are a way off that and into VFMVP heaven.
Hi Oliver, I must admit I wasn't expecting the Purifi to compete this good against your beloved 686,interesting and also maybe the Potential for the Purifi to get even closer to the 686, with those couple of mods that you mention above.
Oliver, can I asked which Purifi amp we are talking about? It's been on my mind for an amp upgrade, so this Purifi could be a possibility. Hi cliffy Welcome to the forum! I didn't expect that either to be honest. If i had to choose one, i still think the majority of my endorphin releasing mechanisms are triggered by the 686, but i could and most likely will be living with the Purifi for some time. I have the Purifi 1ET400A with a 1200 SMPS. |
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Post by sq225917 on Nov 14, 2023 19:51:58 GMT
That's pretty much my thoughts on nuerochrome vs the Dutch gents best works. The class d has it in the bass, but the nuerochrome has it from the mids up, easier to live with.
I'd be tempted by an active setup in the bass and nuerochrome for the mid and up.
But why bother chasing rainbows
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Nov 14, 2023 20:00:16 GMT
That's pretty much my thoughts on nuerochrome vs the Dutch gents best works. The class d has it in the bass, but the nuerochrome has it from the mids up, easier to live with. I'd be tempted by an active setup in the bass and nuerochrome for the mid and up. But why bother chasing rainbows I'll be trying exactly that next week! Think you're right. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 14, 2023 20:42:20 GMT
That's pretty much my thoughts on nuerochrome vs the Dutch gents best works. The class d has it in the bass, but the nuerochrome has it from the mids up, easier to live with. I'd be tempted by an active setup in the bass and nuerochrome for the mid and up. But why bother chasing rainbows That's exactly where I'm going, Simon. |
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Post by sq225917 on Nov 14, 2023 23:38:26 GMT
I'd do the same if I could be arsed, but why digitize my vinyl playback?
I've tried a few A/d phono stages, it ain't a Paradise.
I'm done tinkering
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Post by stevew on Nov 15, 2023 10:32:33 GMT
That's pretty much my thoughts on nuerochrome vs the Dutch gents best works. The class d has it in the bass, but the nuerochrome has it from the mids up, easier to live with. I'd be tempted by an active setup in the bass and nuerochrome for the mid and up. But why bother chasing rainbows Or a class d sub (for those with 686/Ekta). |
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Post by firebottle on Nov 15, 2023 11:43:36 GMT
Don't need a sub, I haven't used mine since getting the Ekta's. Plenty of deep bass.
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Post by sq225917 on Nov 16, 2023 16:53:43 GMT
Ynwoan has ns1000m with 1200w of lab gruppen class d driving the bass, and a 15" sub with xo out of the lab gruppen.
You dont know what flat to 20hz until you've heard it...
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Post by bencat on Nov 23, 2023 10:08:41 GMT
Oli could I ask who made the Purifi Amplifier was this you ? Was this a DIY kit bought and constructed or a ready made item ?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2023 12:10:01 GMT
Oli could I ask who made the Purifi Amplifier was this you ? Was this a DIY kit bought and constructed or a ready made item ? It's a Ghent Audio case with SMPS and Purifi modules. I bought it full constructed, but they are no solder builds, so incredibly simple. There are videos demoing how simple it is on YouTube |
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Post by bencat on Nov 23, 2023 12:34:44 GMT
Looking around the Nord 3 seems to be a ready built option of a similar spec . Presume if you want to buy a DIY kit then you have to source things from different places to put them together or is there one company offering a complete kit ?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2023 13:14:10 GMT
Looking around the Nord 3 seems to be a ready built option of a similar spec . Presume if you want to buy a DIY kit then you have to source things from different places to put them together or is there one company offering a complete kit ? Yeah, it looks that way. Hypex don't sound the same. I don't know why, but they don't. |
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when you move into the next stage of reply all items will be in focus and the weak points are easily indentified what ever they may be in each system.
