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Post by dsjr on Jul 28, 2018 11:15:25 GMT
I don't know about the rest of it but fancy mains cables? forget it. Waste of time and money. It's all in the mind. Doesn't matter if your mains are dirtier than a ten dollar whore, makes no difference at all. Just look at the effin cable your Krell came with. Do you think they used that gauge purely for macho audiophool reasons? Maybe they did, but the switch-on inrush isn't low on amps like that.
If I could source heavy duty IEC cables like that, I'd use them ragardless - I believe the IEC plug should be different for 13A or higher, so the krell one (and those used for big Levinsons I gather), must be a custom one possibly. In the meantime for a main mains lead to a distribution block, I like the Mark Grant cable. Decent gauge conductors, fair price and IT WORKS!
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Post by dsjr on Jul 28, 2018 11:22:39 GMT
The pi-filters I use are rated more than ten times the fuse rating of the gear itself. Stupid way of doing it, but I remember a ben Duncan article decades ago when he was discussing filters and the suggestion was there should be ten times the current rating for minimal insertion loss. Works for me..
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Post by macca on Jul 28, 2018 11:29:25 GMT
I didn't reject the BMU. I had a try of it out of interest, I preferred the sound without it. There wasn't anything wrong with it, and it did make a difference, just not a positive one.
After numerous experiences with mains products I've come to the conclusion that the 'quality of the mains' is not something that is worth worrying about unless you've got obvious issues like interference, over or under voltage or other well known and quantifiable problems that are mainly the leccy board's problem.
I can see how a BMU or regenerator could help in extreme situations. But not a cable or a conditioner or a fuse or any other fringe stuff that just relies on our amazing ability to delude ourselves.
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Post by macca on Jul 28, 2018 11:33:35 GMT
I don't know about the rest of it but fancy mains cables? forget it. Waste of time and money. It's all in the mind. Doesn't matter if your mains are dirtier than a ten dollar whore, makes no difference at all. Just look at the effin cable your Krell came with. Do you think they used that gauge purely for macho audiophool reasons? Maybe they did, but the switch-on inrush isn't low on amps like that.
If I could source heavy duty IEC cables like that, I'd use them ragardless - I believe the IEC plug should be different for 13A or higher, so the krell one (and those used for big Levinsons I gather), must be a custom one possibly. In the meantime for a main mains lead to a distribution block, I like the Mark Grant cable. Decent gauge conductors, fair price and IT WORKS!
It isn't a foo cable though, it's just of a sufficient gauge to handle the current it might draw in an extreme situation because the Krell is a serious bit of equipment unlike a typical audio amplifier. But you knew that already. |
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Post by nonuffin on Jul 28, 2018 12:00:50 GMT
Just look at the effin cable your Krell came with. Do you think they used that gauge purely for macho audiophool reasons? Maybe they did, but the switch-on inrush isn't low on amps like that.
If I could source heavy duty IEC cables like that, I'd use them ragardless - I believe the IEC plug should be different for 13A or higher, so the krell one (and those used for big Levinsons I gather), must be a custom one possibly. In the meantime for a main mains lead to a distribution block, I like the Mark Grant cable. Decent gauge conductors, fair price and IT WORKS!
It isn't a foo cable though, it's just of a sufficient gauge to handle the current it might draw in an extreme situation because the Krell is a serious bit of equipment unlike a typical audio amplifier. But you knew that already. Which in a perverse way proves what I have been banging on about for so many years. It isn't because a whizzo expensive upgrade cable is so wonderful, it is actually how poor the cheapo freebie cable is, riddled with flaws and imperfections. The wire gauge is pitifully thin and poor quality copper, the connectors are only just about adequate and most of them are wired to the connectors by being laid onto the terminals and the moulding process holding them in place. Bust one apart and see for yourself.
The upgrade cable isn't necessarily "better" sounding per se, it usually has less flaws and imperfections than the one it replaces so you usually do hear a "better" sound. That isn't a general statement though as a good percentage of upgrade cables leave a lot to be desired, although still better built than the freebie.
I do agree with DSJR that the design of the IEC connector needs to be looked at again for current draws above 10 amps because some thin springy strips at the business end are not sufficient for conveying a current any higher than that at best, with most suffering below that level of current.
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Post by savvypaul on Jul 28, 2018 12:03:09 GMT
I have the ridiculously cheap Weiduka mains block and filter unit and all my mains leads are expensive upgrade cables, so I enjoy superb sound from my system. I wouldn't dream of reverting back to the cheap and nasty give away cheap cables as they simply crush the sound with restricted dynamics, bass boom, noise, hash and masked details. Anyone who thinks a freebie mains cable is up to the job needs their head and ears examining or give up on true high fidelity sound becuase they really don't understand what exactly it is.Yes that is a controversial statement and I have no intentions of squabbling yet again now on this forum after too many years of doing so with people who do not have open minds. I like sceptics because they are prepared to listen and will generally say "show me", whereas true cynics that won't listen to any reasoned argument will NEVER use that language. It's not a controversial statement...it's your heartfelt opinion. Other heartfelt opinions are also available... |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 28, 2018 12:10:41 GMT
Apologies. Fancy mains confections costing many hundreds of pounds don't feature on my radar at all. I have an old friend and ex KJ colleague with whom I'm still in touch. A few years ago he was raving about how good the then new Transparent Audio mains cable was, only £760 to you sir! I told him it kind of put my home made short mains cable to shade (1.5mm conductors with MK mains plug and whatever IEC I had to hand with 'squeezed' terminals). A very recent conversation we had concerned Transparent's exotic mains conditioners. The two top models seem to differ in case construction more than anything else but the prices range from SIXTEEN GRAND to TWENTY FOUR GRAND I believe. Apparently with the Transparent mains conditioners, one should only use two of the four sockets on them! Here's the filters I use on my digital stuff (NEVER on a power amp!)- uk.farnell.com/roxburgh/pmf6/filter-in-line-6a/dp/1101097?Ntt=RoxburghIN-LINEIt used to be £36 and twenty years ago nearly the Chord Co.used to retail it for £200 as the Clearway, the dealer buying it in for ninety quid. Dealers are a closed minded bunch and refused to even try it. It works on smaller complete systems, but i just use one on each major digital item. |
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Post by macca on Jul 28, 2018 13:02:30 GMT
It isn't a foo cable though, it's just of a sufficient gauge to handle the current it might draw in an extreme situation because the Krell is a serious bit of equipment unlike a typical audio amplifier. But you knew that already. Which in a perverse way proves what I have been banging on about for so many years. It isn't because a whizzo expensive upgrade cable is so wonderful, it is actually how poor the cheapo freebie cable is, riddled with flaws and imperfections. The wire gauge is pitifully thin and poor quality copper, the connectors are only just about adequate and most of them are wired to the connectors by being laid onto the terminals and the moulding process holding them in place. Bust one apart and see for yourself.
The upgrade cable isn't necessarily "better" sounding per se, it usually has less flaws and imperfections than the one it replaces so you usually do hear a "better" sound. That isn't a general statement though as a good percentage of upgrade cables leave a lot to be desired, although still better built than the freebie.
I do agree with DSJR that the design of the IEC connector needs to be looked at again for current draws above 10 amps because some thin springy strips at the business end are not sufficient for conveying a current any higher than that at best, with most suffering below that level of current.
Krell provide the cable solely for safety reasons, nothing to do with sound quality. |
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Post by nonuffin on Jul 28, 2018 13:46:37 GMT
I have the ridiculously cheap Weiduka mains block and filter unit and all my mains leads are expensive upgrade cables, so I enjoy superb sound from my system. I wouldn't dream of reverting back to the cheap and nasty give away cheap cables as they simply crush the sound with restricted dynamics, bass boom, noise, hash and masked details. Anyone who thinks a freebie mains cable is up to the job needs their head and ears examining or give up on true high fidelity sound becuase they really don't understand what exactly it is.Yes that is a controversial statement and I have no intentions of squabbling yet again now on this forum after too many years of doing so with people who do not have open minds. I like sceptics because they are prepared to listen and will generally say "show me", whereas true cynics that won't listen to any reasoned argument will NEVER use that language. It's not a controversial statement...it's your heartfelt opinion. Other heartfelt opinions are also available... It is indeed a heartfelt opinion, but that is driven by many years of first hand experience dealing with a great number of mains cables and their effects.
I don't have any issues at all with other heartfelt opinions, although I feel saddened by people who say that cables make no difference whatsoever without a minimum or an equal amount of first hand experience. "I tried one once and didn't like it" doesn't hold much weight with me I'm afraid because there are many variables to consider before making a conclusion.
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Deleted
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The Mains
Jul 28, 2018 14:11:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 14:11:10 GMT
My heartfelt opinion is....
"Yer all fekin mad"
😠
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Post by dsjr on Jul 28, 2018 14:41:13 GMT
It isn't a foo cable though, it's just of a sufficient gauge to handle the current it might draw in an extreme situation because the Krell is a serious bit of equipment unlike a typical audio amplifier. But you knew that already.
I do agree with DSJR that the design of the IEC connector needs to be looked at again for current draws above 10 amps because some thin springy strips at the business end are not sufficient for conveying a current any higher than that at best, with most suffering below that level of current.
Hang on a mo, I don't mind IEC mains connectors and never had an issue with one *myself.* Look at the Sh#t in most mains blocks brushing a typical 13A or even 15A mains plug, the contacts in an IEC connector are usually more substantial and should, if adjusted right (DISCONNECTED FROM THE MAINS FIRST!!!) offer a tight snug fit - ooohhh missus - cough..... Just my take though...
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Post by nonuffin on Jul 28, 2018 15:35:14 GMT
I do agree with DSJR that the design of the IEC connector needs to be looked at again for current draws above 10 amps because some thin springy strips at the business end are not sufficient for conveying a current any higher than that at best, with most suffering below that level of current.
Hang on a mo, I don't mind IEC mains connectors and never had an issue with one *myself.* Look at the Sh#t in most mains blocks brushing a typical 13A or even 15A mains plug, the contacts in an IEC connector are usually more substantial and should, if adjusted right (DISCONNECTED FROM THE MAINS FIRST!!!) offer a tight snug fit - ooohhh missus - cough..... Just my take though...
I have had several IEC connectors that arced because the contacts had lost their grip. These were not cheap chinese imports either. |
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Post by macca on Jul 28, 2018 15:44:43 GMT
Never has a problem with one myself over 30 odd years and I just use the leads supplied with the kit.
In the old days the lead was always captive anyway so no-one ever gave it a second thought. I think the first kit I got that had an IEC socket was a Linn LK100 in about 2002.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 16:11:54 GMT
Nope no probs with the good old IEC.
To have Several losing grip and short is to say the least damned unlucky.....you did pop em in the right hole !!!
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The Mains
Jul 30, 2018 0:11:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 0:11:12 GMT
If there is a difference to be had from upgrading mains cables, what proportion would be down to the “superior” wire of the cable and what to its “superior” IEC connector (or plug)?
I don’t currently use anything fancy for either, but I have persuaded myself that hard wiring mains leads (the ultimate connector I supppose) has tended to improve things a tiny bit.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 1:14:11 GMT
You'll be moving on to 100 quid audio fuses next doc.....😁
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The Mains
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 7:29:03 GMT
You'll be moving on to 100 quid audio fuses next doc.....😁 Only if they’re soldered into place...! |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 30, 2018 9:37:56 GMT
I’ve probably come full circle. These days I’m just not sufficiently interested to dabble with mains. I enjoy what I’m hearing whenever I listen, so no motivation to try and get more, what I have is enough and it satisfies me completely.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2018 19:57:27 GMT
I have experience of both sides of electrical supply and power cords, I lived quite happily with my Pink Triangle T/T and TDL speakers etc and felt no need to consider changing leads or altering my house wiring. That held true for thirty years and only changed when we moved to deepest Norfolk. I could only enjoy my music very late at night so job number one was to put the system on a dedicated radial with a separate consumer unit which gave some improvement I then gained further benefit by using some kimber interconnects and reference power leads and even better from silver arrows cables.
Job number two was to check voltage supply ( talk about after the horse has bolted from the stable ) my system was running a minimum of 247/8 volts and frequently at 252 volts. I have like a lot of people spent some times stupid money on hi-fi bet the absolutely best value was a regenerator which holds my system at a blissful 230 volts.
My conclusion is that in a good electrical supply you are unlikely to need such help but the improvement at the hi-fi system by improving the electrics is very considerable.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 31, 2018 20:09:53 GMT
I think there is a lot in that. I’ve never lived in towns or cities in decades and mains has never seemed to vary during the day or night. Where I am now, there is no industry, hardly any permanent residents, everything is new and there are no ring mains.Mains cables make no difference but then again I have lots of advantages.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2018 22:43:49 GMT
My road and the next road is full of small industry (garages, an industrial coating plant, small factories), which I am told is bad for mains “quality”.
Like others here, when I measured my voltage that was always too high, so I may have a “quantity” issue as well!
I hear a definite change when I insert a regenerator or balanced mains.
Intuitively it seems to make sense that if your mains is ok, there's no need for such corrective measures.
It would be good to know what are the measurable criteria that might help determine this (voltage, DC, etc.,...?). Maybe something about the hifi components may also predict how useful mains equipment might be...?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 1, 2018 3:58:43 GMT
I think it’s supposed to be 240v here in Cyprus. I have no means of measuring it, though. The power station was just rebuilt very recently. They stored live munitions right next door to it and .......boom! Still, it’s supposed to be bang up to date, which probably helps deliver clean stable mains.s
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 6, 2018 14:30:22 GMT
I ran a Naim system back around 2003-2006 and I found significant improvements from upgrading mains cables, Ever since I’ve found no difference, By coincidence I had another set of Naim amps and a Kimber PK14 mains lead to hand. Same thing as back in the day! More powerful, better timing and much more stable sounding.
Quite why Naim amps and Kimber cable seem to defy the far greater bulk of my experience I dunno, but it’s shown itself to be consistent.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 15:45:24 GMT
I have never really done any mains cable trials. Currently using some electric lawn mower cable hardwired into my creations.  I have some Naim equipment (used to have more) and all I ever did was change the plugs to some foo nordorst ones. Cant even remember if it made a difference. Biggest difference mains related has been a dedicated radial circuit from consumer unit. 2 metre length of supra lorad cable is all it took  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 22:45:03 GMT
You will have major problems with your amp clipping Stu.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 18:12:53 GMT
I think it’s supposed to be 240v here in Cyprus. I have no means of measuring it, though. The power station was just rebuilt very recently. They stored live munitions right next door to it and .......boom! Still, it’s supposed to be bang up to date, which probably helps deliver clean stable mains.s You live in Cyprus Oli? The change in ownership certainly makes old threads confusing.... Anyway, my Powerinspired AG1500 has started to make a slight fizzing/buzzing noise. It probably won’t be man enough got the new power amp, so I am looking at alternatives to get rid of DC, and control the voltage slightly. Any suggestions of a sensible priced device? |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 3, 2020 18:32:24 GMT
I think it’s supposed to be 240v here in Cyprus. I have no means of measuring it, though. The power station was just rebuilt very recently. They stored live munitions right next door to it and .......boom! Still, it’s supposed to be bang up to date, which probably helps deliver clean stable mains.s You live in Cyprus Oli? The change in ownership certainly makes old threads confusing.... Anyway, my Powerinspired AG1500 has started to make a slight fizzing/buzzing noise. It probably won’t be man enough got the new power amp, so I am looking at alternatives to get rid of DC, and control the voltage slightly. Any suggestions of a sensible priced device? Yes, but only if you read old posts lol |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 19:22:00 GMT
It seemed the most appropriate.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 3, 2020 19:26:09 GMT
It seemed the most appropriate. Anyway, arent amps supposed to go directly into the wall? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 19:26:45 GMT
Big ones, yes.
So is yours not connected to a BMU?
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