Buying and selling: Taking advice

The other claim from AVI is that the ideal speaker should aspire to headphone performance. Well that’s soundstagimg straight out the window for one thing. Give me £150 for a single source system (CD, amp, speakers) and I could easily put together a sound that would beat any headphone on the planet.......for my tastes. So the AVI model cannot be a universal truth.

Never been there in a while but that was my recollection too. The thing for me is that I don’t even believe in “one true way” to satisfy my own tastes, let alone one true way for everyone.

Linn, Naim, Exposue, NVA and others have made products I have loved. They have also made products I have hated and other products I have bettered (to my ears) in the context of their own systems. If I took the makers at their word and only used their kit in a “one size fits all” way, then I would’ve appreciated their wares far less. In some cases, I simply wouldn’t have bothered with them.

I saw the main thrust of Classic's posting as a suggestion that frequent box swapping is counter productive...rather than a suggestion that NVA is 'the one true way'. My view on the former is that I don't really care. Do what works for you. If everything you buy is 'great' and then you change it every couple of months then I might not make you my first point of call for advice...but that should not cause me to be malicious. I would only become concerned if you are then seeking to 'promote' or force your opinion as some kind of 'guru'. I don't think that Oli is trying to promote himself as a guru, and I think he's quite happy that box swapping works for him, and I doubt he cares that Classic thinks differently. So, we are all cool.

Re NVA: Is it 'the one true way'? No. Is it 'one true way (among others)'? Yes, in my opinion.

Re HFS...I can't be your messenger, Macca. You will have to do that for yourself.

We both know what the 'thrust' of Classic's post was so lets not deny it.


Well not surprised it's been snapped up but I thought you admitted this is the best you have had. I think there will be demands for you to produce 'The Wizard' at a bake off. Something impartial were certain people and product are not banned. I hope this decision wasn't influenced by some knob head at AOS


Nothing to do with box swapping was it?

Quite frankly my comments are all to do with box swapping. I don't take the views on what sounds best seriously from box swappers simply because they are just thinking about trying the next toy which then becomes flavour of the month. They can carry on swapping for all I care if that's what suits them and waste a pile of cash while doing so. Please don't bring the battle between your AOS friend and RD into this discussion. All I'm saying is the Wizard must be damn good to see off the Phono 2 twin PS and I'm sure some of us would like to hear the comparison. Hence my call for an unbiased session on neutral ground..... ADMIN: no attacks here please and no inter forum shite either,

Guys, let's not turn this into a brand/forum v brand/forum argument.

I have been enjoying being able to converse with everyone on a forum that isn't being turned into a battlefield.

My only objection to Classic's posts was the he put words in my mouth that I didn't say. Made an assumption about why I was selling on the NVA PHONO2 and had a sly dig at me. His opinion on value to pound is as valid as anyone's

His opinion on the NVA PHONO2 is as valid as anyones and he's entitled to voice it.

The motivation for his post was clearly intended to criticize my box turnover and to suggest I didn't give the NVA PHONO2 enough of a chance, but that's OK, as I said, he didn't know how long I'd had the unit and once pointed out I'm sure he realised the assumption was incorrect.

The motivation in the post was clear but let's not get derailed and retreat to our tribes. Let's move past it.

Most forums have a 'Flavour of the Month' product that is hyped endlessly for several weeks then entirely forgotten about (with the exception of the MDAC on pfm which seems to be Flavour of the Decade, or even Century). On AoS it seems to be a succession of 'wonder cables' that will make your jaw drop, blow your socks off and cause your wife, who doesn't normally notice these things, to comment on the inky blackness, until the next wonder cable comes along which is ten times better.

I guess it's unsurprising that NVA products are talked about a lot on a forum that is now explicitly an NVA forum. Personally, I steer clear of recommending anything, having had several experiences of buying stuff on the basis of forum hype, only to be seriously underwhelmed. Finally the penny dropped that tastes, rooms and ears vary widely, and you need to hear stuff in your own home to come to any conclusions about it. At least with NVA stuff you get to try it for free.

To address the wider topic of 'Taking advice'

You often see on forums someone asking about say, upgrading their amplifier. They'll get 10 responses saying 'I use an 'ABC' and it's brilliant I suggest you get one.

Worthless, even not taking into account whether it will be a good match for the speakers. Just 'I have one and like it and so will you.' It's facile.

The only advice I am interested in personally is technical advice from people who know their stuff. What other people 'prefer; is neither here nor there to me, as there is no guarantee I will prefer it. Taste in presentation differs wildly even amongst people who have been doing this for years.

I'm a doubting Thomas and if someone says 'This is the new wonder product' I will say 'Give me a listen then.' I wouldn't take anyone's word for it, not a manufacturer, not a guru, not even someone who's system I have heard and really like. I have to try it for myself and even after that my verdict is mine and mine alone. I wouldn't expect anyone else to take it at face value and I'd think them a mug if they did.



There are only 2 ways to decide what it is you personally want - get the kit on home demo or if it is no longer sold new, buy one second hand. Yes, box swapping. Why do people think this costs money? Buy it for £200, don't fancy it, sell it for £200, it costs you nothing. This is my hobby so I allocate £1000 a year in funds to it. I'm fortunate that I have enough money that I don't need to sell straight away in order to try something else, I can hang onto kit for years without worrying.


I've sold a load of kit in the past 12 months some of which I've had over a decade, got most of my money back. Could have got it all back but I'm not that bothered about a few quid so I didn't ask top dollar for it. I'm in no doubt that that is the best way to learn what sort of presentation and what sort of quality of sound you find acceptable. The idea that box-swapping costs a fortune is nonsense unless you are buying it all new in which case you're crazy or very wealthy.


Sure you can't try everything but you can narrow the field down, especially once you have some experience and can see from the specs - yes the specs! - as to whether it is likely to work for you. My entire current set up was bought without any prior auditions, speakers were bought on the specs, power amp because one came up for sale and I fancied having a go on it, CD player because I liked the look of it. Pre-amp because I was looking to try a passive and it happened to come up for sale at a low price. No advice from anyone was required or sought.

ADMIN: I can understand your wish to have a right of reply and address things said about you, but I have no wish to conduct conversations by proxy with members who have been banned for causing disruption and making direct threats . Richard Dunn is banned and will never be allowed back. His IP is banned because I have no interest in allowing him to even read here.

To afford you a right of clarification for others who are not banned, I have left as much of your posts as I could below.

I haven't said that the P2 was better than the Wizard or Vice Versa. I did say the NVa P2 was my recommendation at £800 and under. I deliberately havent commented on what's better because...

A) The Wizard is a DIY build and not commercially available. So doesn't hold any value in terms of comparison with the P2 in the public domain. No one has heard a Wizard except for 15 poeple at the Bakeoff.

B) The NVA v Wizard isn't something I'm interested in getting into as in my opinion, they do things differently, which is the biggest difference between the two. Also, if it were to ever be available, it would be a DIY kit which again doesn't put it in the commercially available catagory.

C) I didn't want people to start saying I thought one was better than the other which is happening anyway.

The Phono 2 was bought for a comparison to see how far I'd got the Wizard. I picked the best phonostage i could get in the budget and bought it.

The P2 is sold, that should demonstrate that I no longer need it for comparison. That's all there is to the sale and all I will say about the time I had the Wizard v NVA phono2 at my house.

Agreed, and to return to topic, a loan scheme avoids any need to take or even seek advice.

NB: Oliver has explained his reasoning now (which he didn’t have to). That topic is done. Any further attempts to drag him or us into the usual inter forum mire will be removed. Any future attempts to make a big deal of anything just because it is related to NVA, RD, HFS or its “wars” with other forums will also be removed and the culprits banned permanently. If I wanted to deal with evangelists I’d set up a Moonies forum.

General posts on the merits or otherwise of taking advice when making purchase/selling decisions are welcome. Anything even attempting to drag us back into the Sh#t will be treated as a piss-take and dealt with forcefully.

Fair enough, I pressed "post" before I'd seen your statement so apologies for that.

No worries, Oliver. At least the main body of your words has been left intact. Quite why you should have to justify a sale just because it is NVA really irks me. We will have none of that bullshit going forward, nor will there be any crapping on sales posts.

Having given advice and heard the recipient report that they acted upon it and they didn’t see any merit in the purchase, you become reticent. Too many variables for advice to be consistently reliable IMO. If buying used, you have far less to lose though.