Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 20, 2022 12:19:33 GMT
Looking forward to getting my Mutec sorted too.
Seems to be a universal improvement to the digital side. Excellent.
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Post by firebottle on Sept 17, 2022 10:08:51 GMT
I suppose I could say the system is pretty sorted now, but as with anyone suffering from audionervosa one is always keeping a lookout at various bits of kit. The Metrum Musette Dac piqued my interest as it is an R2R dac and I like R2R dacs. It is from 2015 originally but this has the updated Transient modules in it, the Transient Dac2. It is supposedly 24 bit with a bit of jiggery pokery to the bit sequence to lower the noise floor. Internal view showing the two plug in modules: Now these modules are all potted so there is no chance to make any direct modifications so I have been looking at the power supply arrangements. There is a large LM317 regulator and I discovered two smaller LM317/337 regulators underneath the modules. Question is what is powering what? I fitted a sense resistor in series with the larger LM317 so I could measure the current in different modes and with the modules and USB board removed. It turns out the larger LM317 is just for housekeeping duties, the smaller LM317/337 regs are powering the modules. Now I can get down to business and replace these with something with a lot lower noise. Fortunately I have a twin psu board available. I am going to give the dac a good listen before doing any mods, it does sound very good as is. Comparing to the Holo Spring 3 there is less air and a narrower sound stage on some recordings. From searching it seems there is an FPGA chip in each module plus other chips, would be interesting to know which R2R chips it uses. Here is a view of the latest Dac3 module pcb: Anyone else using Metrum Dacs?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2022 10:12:59 GMT
No, but I was considering a Musette that is for sale locally, so I will be interested in your findings.
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Post by firebottle on Sept 17, 2022 10:29:31 GMT
See if it has the Dac1 or Dac2 modules in it. Dac2 are supposedly a lot better.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2022 10:39:57 GMT
I am assuming it is DAC1, as it is not stated it is fitted with DAC2.
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Post by misterc on Sept 17, 2022 11:30:11 GMT
The later modules Alan are good step up in perfomance, improved bass control, greater depth of field and more open upper frequencices.
You could go to town on this one Alan some very positive gains to be made.
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edward
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Still prospecting?
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Post by edward on Sept 17, 2022 19:57:59 GMT
<snip> Anyone else using Metrum Dacs? I have a Metrum Hex. Is mine upgradeable? I had an email chat with a Wouter Hazenberg of Metrum a couple years ago (when Metrum was just coming out of bankruptcy) and asked about upgrade options for the Hex. He said no, but I wonder now if it can be upgraded.
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 17, 2022 20:09:07 GMT
I had a Metrum Octave (I think), allegedly their first ever DAC. It was alright. Mostly harmless.
I've heard that their later models were much better.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 17, 2022 20:52:27 GMT
I had a Metrum Octave (I think), allegedly their first ever DAC. It was alright. Mostly harmless. I've heard that their later models were much better. Still loving that SMSL Jerry?
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 18, 2022 5:53:22 GMT
I had a Metrum Octave (I think), allegedly their first ever DAC. It was alright. Mostly harmless. I've heard that their later models were much better. Still loving that SMSL Jerry? Yup, I can't fault the damn thing. I'll keep trying. A couple of new preamps should be with me over the next few weeks, and I look forward to trying those with my Theta DSPro Prime DAC.
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Post by firebottle on Sept 18, 2022 9:40:08 GMT
I am assuming it is DAC1, as it is not stated it is fitted with DAC2. Depends when it was made Kevin, if it's post 2017 or possibly 8 it might already be fitted with the Dac2. Depending on the price it could well be worth asking, I'm finding it very good.
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Post by firebottle on Sept 18, 2022 9:44:31 GMT
After further investigation it seems the main 5V regulator is powering the digital part of the Transient modules, the FPGA chip for sure. I had to have a signal playing to see the increased current through the regulator.
I have now ordered a low noise regulator board to fit to power the modules 5V. The other two smaller regulators are set at +-6V and I am sure power the analogue output stages, also inside the Dac2 modules.
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Post by misterc on Sept 18, 2022 10:57:53 GMT
Lots more to exactrat as well Alan, your on the right lines though
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2022 11:07:47 GMT
I am assuming it is DAC1, as it is not stated it is fitted with DAC2. Depends when it was made Kevin, if it's post 2017 or possibly 8 it might already be fitted with the Dac2. Depending on the price it could well be worth asking, I'm finding it very good. I shall ask, as it is €600. I also won’t be modifying it, as a little knowledge is dangerous…
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2022 18:53:20 GMT
See if it has the Dac1 or Dac2 modules in it. Dac2 are supposedly a lot better. It is a DAC1, so I am giving it a miss.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 18, 2022 18:58:45 GMT
See if it has the Dac1 or Dac2 modules in it. Dac2 are supposedly a lot better. It is a DAC1, so I am giving it a miss. What's your budget K?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2022 19:07:34 GMT
Budget?
What’s that?
The less spent, the better. Probably best to continue this on my own thread.
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Post by firebottle on Sept 23, 2022 15:38:51 GMT
The Metrum mods are yielding excellent results, I have fitted an ultra low noise regulator feeding the Dac2 modules 5V.
It's close to the Holo Spring3 performance now, well chuffed.
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Post by misterc on Sept 23, 2022 16:04:33 GMT
Good Stuff Alan
Now the PLL change on the Akm reciever chip next
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Post by firebottle on Jan 12, 2023 12:03:30 GMT
OK I've been thinking the system is now at a pretty stable state, I have rebuilt the Neurochrome 286 into a larger case with a linear supply (400VA transformer) along with all copper connectors and TripleC internal cabling. Performance is exquisite. New speakers arriving tomorrow should/will put the cherry on the top. System sorted, or is it? Something took my fancy, not expensive but prompted the question - could this improve the digital? Only one way to find out, buy it and try it. As a certain individual will say, you know who you are, the Innuos Zen only having a USB output is letting the system down. So a SOtM (soul of the music it stands for) DDC to convert from USB to AES/coax/optical has been installed. I had to make a new AES interconnect, fortunately I had some XLR plugs so used some cat6a cable to make it. The Zen now connects to the DDC and then via AES to the Mutec Well blow me down it has actually worked in my favour with a greater clarity and attack. We have been listening to a lot of different tracks and I am really pleased with how they sound. I have now put together a Test Tracks playlist in readiness for tomorrow, whoo hoo!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 12, 2023 12:30:36 GMT
Tomorrow being new speaker day? ? There is NO better day.
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Post by lurch on Jan 12, 2023 12:52:39 GMT
Strange this hobby Allen, you have found adding another element into the digital, chain has increased SQ. Whereas for me it was the opposite and the reason I pulled and sold my Mutec. I found for me, once I had the ZenITH 3, that the Mutec killed the flow and put the music in a straitjacket.
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optical
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Post by optical on Jan 12, 2023 12:55:57 GMT
Strange this hobby Allen, you have found adding another element into the digital, chain has increased SQ. Whereas for me it was the opposite and the reason I pulled and sold my Mutec. I found for me, once I had the ZenITH 3, that the Mutec killed the flow and put the music in a straitjacket. As you say, strange hobby as I found the Mutec to 'release' the music from that 'straitjacket', as you say. Perhaps too much processing/not enough processing was going on either end and adding/removing certain elements affects the outcome in the digital domain. Well, . . . if the jacket fits!
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Post by bencat on Jan 12, 2023 12:57:28 GMT
Alan I would certainly agree that using a DDC works and sounds an improvement on a direct USB connection . In my case it got worse because using two DDC units daisy changed improved the sound again .
I will be getting my Mutec to you soon so you can remove the SMPS power supply and install a barrel input so I can use an off board LPSU . Given what I have read here I will be very hopeful of getting a decent sound quality uplift . Only issue at the moment is that I have no better box for the Mutec been looking for one .If anyone near me has something get in touch quite happy to pick it up .
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 12, 2023 14:04:39 GMT
Strange this hobby Allen, you have found adding another element into the digital, chain has increased SQ. Whereas for me it was the opposite and the reason I pulled and sold my Mutec. I found for me, once I had the ZenITH 3, that the Mutec killed the flow and put the music in a straitjacket. It is a strange hobby, as removing my Mutec from system results in a much flatter soundstage, like it's being sat on. This is the same result i have experienced with other DACs too, so not a specific DAC issue. It was the device that opened up digital as a possible candidate for primary source. I don't think it i could have digital without one.
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Post by lurch on Jan 12, 2023 14:55:50 GMT
I think it comes down to the quality of the source feeding the DAC, as my Node2 definitely benefitted from the inclusion of the Mutec in the chain as did an ifi Zen Blu2.
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optical
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Post by optical on Jan 12, 2023 15:11:24 GMT
I think it comes down to the quality of the source feeding the DAC, as my Node2 definitely benefitted from the inclusion of the Mutec in the chain as did an ifi Zen Blu2. Whilst I agree with you in principal that the source is very important, I'm struggling to think how I could technically improve mine (that much). It has an internal SSD for storage, a linear PSU and AES output. I mean, I'm sure it could be bettered but not by a huge amount with those three bases well covered. I could be wrong though as that's just my basic knowledge in play there. One thing I seemed to notice with the Mutec in the chain, was a slight reduction in bass output and the low end did lose some impact and texture. This was rectified when I swapped out the SMPS for a proper LPSU. I thought myself mad for immediately modding a bit of kit that I'd just bought, but the outcome was satisfactory enough to squash any silly attacks of sensibility I had about doing it in the first place or indeed to dissuade me from doing it again in the future . . . .
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 12, 2023 15:19:23 GMT
I think it comes down to the quality of the source feeding the DAC, as my Node2 definitely benefitted from the inclusion of the Mutec in the chain as did an ifi Zen Blu2. I'd agree with that if I didn't have a circa £5k (RRP) streamer feeding the Mutec. I am quite notorious at this point for finding issues I don't like with devices, especially when I whip the lid off stuff, but the Aria uses pretty much exactly what I'd put together in terms of storage devices, power supply and output. Obviously there are PSU related things that could be upgraded to more modern devices, but as it is, it's a bit of a beast. Don't forget, I also had an Aurelic Aries G2 here too for a while, and that also cost around £5k (RRP). The result was the same with and without the Mutec with that too. The obvious difference is that I do not (will not) use USB. I have never tried a Mutec via USB.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 12, 2023 15:21:47 GMT
I think it comes down to the quality of the source feeding the DAC, as my Node2 definitely benefitted from the inclusion of the Mutec in the chain as did an ifi Zen Blu2. Whilst I agree with you in principal that the source is very important, I'm struggling to think how I could technically improve mine (that much). It has an internal SSD for storage, a linear PSU and AES output. I mean, I'm sure it could be bettered but not by a huge amount with those three bases well covered. I could be wrong though as that's just my basic knowledge in play there. One thing I seemed to notice with the Mutec in the chain, was a slight reduction in bass output and the low end did lose some impact and texture. This was rectified when I swapped out the SMPS for a proper LPSU. I thought myself mad for immediately modding a bit of kit that I'd just bought, but the outcome was satisfactory enough to squash any silly attacks of sensibility I had about doing it in the first place or indeed to dissuade me from doing it again in the future . . . . That's exactly what I thought when I put mine in with the SMPS. And then sorted it with an external LPSU. You're not mad. You are correct 😄
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Post by lurch on Jan 12, 2023 16:11:20 GMT
May well be the USB implementation, with it being Innuoses usp they will more than likely have done some optimisation work in that area. They have also played with the Linux & LMS software, stripping out all unnecessary non-audio elements, and are contiuing to tweak it. I've also noticed distinct differences with the 4 usb cables I've tried, the two worst ones being a Chord Epic & Shawline, SQ for both was below that experienced with the freebies from Mutec & BI. The best by a country mile was a Supra Excalibur, which I kept and now use, both Chords were very closed in and muffled compared to the freebies, the Supra was a revaluation.
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