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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2018 9:37:18 GMT
Thank you for the information dsjr, might you have any links to hand.
Were there circuit revisions when the later boards were implemented ? I am always interested in reading of how manufacturers may be developing and improving their circuits to refine the reproduction of the recording.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 5, 2018 9:51:47 GMT
I don't know how the circuit changed - sorry. I get the impression the last 'older' models had the same circuit, but the current one has an updated layout.
Just to pick up on something macca said. ALL these amps put musical qualities first, but the 'HiFi' qualities (hearing deeper into recordings, production effects and so on) do seem to get better as the supplies become larger, mono amps etc..
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Post by nonuffin on Jul 5, 2018 9:55:37 GMT
Right...Back to topic. Are there any magazine reviews available, particularly with measurements Ala Stereophile of NVA equipment ? Altho the latter may not always indicate how a piece of equipment reproduces the recording they are useful when assessing impedance and speaker matching etc.etc. I have just done a google search and cannot seem to find a mainstream hi-fi magazine review, but plenty of end user opinions across various forums.
My understanding is that NVA actually prefer these end user comments rather than the formal magazine reviews, especially when they say one of them asked for being ahem, "rewarded" for a favourable review. NVA told them to go and get f.f.f.f.fotographed and rightly so.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2018 10:06:05 GMT
TIS a shame that some of that goes on, however I tend not to tar them all with the same brush.
As said, I rather like Stereophile reviews for the interesting suite of measurements not just the subjective musings.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 5, 2018 10:07:35 GMT
There is the HFS NVA forum where user reviews can be found. It’s also a more fruitful place to raise any questions. My own take is that little can be gained from anyone else’s review compared to hearing the kit. As a loan scheme is in operation, listening for yourself is available, which makes reviews even less important. Of course, if you have already ruled out the brand there appears to be little worth in reviews or loans.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 5, 2018 11:01:55 GMT
Stereophile got it wrong too a few years ago when a Croft integrated amp (another lovely product - hard clipping is it's subjective bane, but that's what the slightly dearer pre and power amps are for) was measured not taking impedance matching into account from the 'record output' and all manner of oddities came up in the measurements that I don't believe happen on listening. Glenn was furious but powerless really to do much about it* I thought there was a link to a review on the eBay product pages somewhere. There is, but they're old and from the days when the amps were sold through dealers. www.nvahifi.co.uk/reviews/ap10-hifi-and-rr-review/
The post 2005 amps are sold online only, so would probably skip the magazine interest where effort and money would need to be invested and of course, NVA don't advertise their products in audio rags
* You may wonder why HFN never had Levinson products to review? I'm told that an amp went for review (which had been carefully checked before being sent) and I believe that Martin Colloms tested it, finding different and inferior results. The Levinson team were so distressed by this they flew over to check Colloms' test set and found it to be in error and in need of re-calibration!!! Once done, the amp tested the same as the factory had claimed, but no further Levinson stuff ever went HFN's way and that may explain their devotion to the UK Ab Sounds' portfolio instead... I can't substantiate this story, but it's been told to me a few times by different people and those that Know Levinson gear of the period loved it hugely... Not NVA but hopefully shows how skewed or biased some reviews can be.
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Post by savvypaul on Jul 5, 2018 11:31:08 GMT
I don't know how the circuit changed - sorry. I get the impression the last 'older' models had the same circuit, but the current one has an updated layout. Just to pick up on something macca said. ALL these amps put musical qualities first, but the 'HiFi' qualities (hearing deeper into recordings, production effects and so on) do seem to get better as the supplies become larger, mono amps etc.. I went from A60 to A80 monoblocks and now added A70 monos for biamping. The more 'NVA' I've added, the clearer, wider, deeper it becomes. The bigger amps also do that wonderful 'up and down' dynamic swing that is akin to your body leaving your stomach behind on a rollercoaster ride!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 5, 2018 12:02:15 GMT
I don't know how the circuit changed - sorry. I get the impression the last 'older' models had the same circuit, but the current one has an updated layout. Just to pick up on something macca said. ALL these amps put musical qualities first, but the 'HiFi' qualities (hearing deeper into recordings, production effects and so on) do seem to get better as the supplies become larger, mono amps etc.. I went from A60 to A80 monoblocks and now added A70 monos for biamping. The more 'NVA' I've added, the clearer, wider, deeper it becomes. The bigger amps also do that wonderful 'up and down' dynamic swing that is akin to your body leaving your stomach behind on a rollercoaster ride! Bi amping was the biggest step up for me, I went from A30 on its own to pairing it with 2 x A40s. I realise it may be speaker dependent but that gave a big uplift. I added two more A40s in place of the A30 and was still pleased. Nothing like the same step up though. I later tried 2 A80s on their own and that was a big disappointment after bi-amping, I have never bi-amped with any other amps and I have only used Spica’s, so I can’t say if my experience will be shared by others. I did buy two Campions but Sonneteer recommended I only use one channel of each amp to drive each speaker in single wire mode. Apparently the Orton came about by trying this arrangement and getting improvements. It did give a better sound and I wish I had kept the other Campion. Too much to carry overeas though so I compromised. One day I will do this again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2018 20:21:07 GMT
I experienced hell using Royd Sapphire with AP10P. Just couldn't listen for more than 20 min. Ear Rape!! S. Sh#t Shane.......I thought the AP10P was supposed to be good.😁
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2018 21:02:24 GMT
It is good. The speaker was Sh#t to my ears.
S.
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NVA Amps
Jul 7, 2018 8:02:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 8:02:16 GMT
Very good sounding amps to my ears. I’ve had the AP10P and AP30 integrateds. Both natural and lively things. I like the success NVA amps have in achieving neutrality. The AP10P is amazing value. My old Dad has mine now. I don’t think the AP30 is available any more. My one is “on loan” to a friend. I can’t imagine properly getting rid of either. Also I’ve had the P90SA pre- which provided volume control without any apparent other effect on sound. Really liked that pre amp. Towards the top end I’ve had the A80 monoblocks (older version) and the TSS mk3 power amp. To my ears and wallet, the A80s were better sound-per-pound value than the more expensive TSS, but the TSS was certainly the most NVA-sounding NVS amp that I tried. My main system only moved on from NVA after discovering Colin Wonfor’s big Class A power amps on the second hand market, which I find even more neutral and even more musical than NVA. Colin’s recent kit amps brought the new price of a Wonfor SECA within my range.
NVAs business model and sales policy always made NVA even more attractive to me; but the surrounding politics less so.
The power in my house is prone to making big toroids hum. And this has certainly been the case with NVA kit (and Colin’s amps too). Successfully treated these days with a DC blocker.
Regarding the circuit for NVA amps. Someone once told me that it was based on a John Linsley Hood design. I don’t how true this is, or how the NVA amp circuit had evolved in recent times.
In any event, especially at the lower end of the NVA amp range, I’ve never heard any serious competition in the new-buy market.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 7, 2018 8:59:56 GMT
Colin’s amps could do with a thread all of their own. I wouldn’t know when to start though. A mate had an ID25 that he still talks about because he regrets selling it.
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Jul 7, 2018 9:11:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 9:11:17 GMT
Colin’s amps could do with a thread all of their own. I wouldn’t know when to start though. A mate had an ID25 that he still talks about because he regrets selling it. I wonder if that’s the ID25 I have. ;-) (Currently on loan to a friend.) (There’s an ID75 on eBay atm at a fair price.) And yes, you’re right. A thread should be started about Colin’s amps. They are the works of a genius. The man’s brain works differently to everyone else’s! The TOCA SECA 20 I have is a step up from the IS25, and the One4 kit amp is better still. But as you suggest, this needs to be in another thread...
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Post by dsjr on Jul 7, 2018 9:25:35 GMT
Glad there's been so many posts overnight (UK time) chatting about the gear and not bringing other stuff into it. I wasn't believed until others confirmed it, but NVA products always were spoken of fondly over the years, even by box-swappers who regularly chop and change their gear. The online prices bring some of the so-called Top-End into a far lower price area. For three hundred quid *including all cables needed,* I honestly don't know what other amp *new* would come anywhere close to an A20/P20. A Rega Brio R is an excellent all-round baby integrated (now nearly £600) with remote control and a reasonable phono stage, but it's not so endearing a listen long term (better than equivalent Arcams and Rotels though). (alright, shill over ). Course there are other great amps out there, but new, they all cost a hell of a lot more and you have to hunt through the bullshit to find them!
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Post by antonio on Jul 7, 2018 9:38:44 GMT
Regarding the circuit for NVA amps. Someone once told me that it was based on a John Linsley Hood design. I don’t how true this is, or how the NVA amp circuit had evolved in recent times.
Not according to RD, there is nothing in common with LH except they are both SS.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 7, 2018 9:44:44 GMT
Colin’s amps could do with a thread all of their own. I wouldn’t know when to start though. A mate had an ID25 that he still talks about because he regrets selling it. I wonder if that’s the ID25 I have. ;-) (Currently on loan to a friend.) (There’s an ID75 on eBay atm at a fair price.) And yes, you’re right. A thread should be started about Colin’s amps. They are the works of a genius. The man’s brain works differently to everyone else’s! The TOCA SECA 20 I have is a step up from the IS25, and the One4 kit amp is better still. But as you suggest, this needs to be in another thread... I don’t want to put anyone to extra work, but if you feel like creating a thread, I for one would love to read it. I know so little and Colin has been forced to change his business name over the years, which makes his work harder to follow. It’s a bit like a musician who worked solo, did session work and was also in a few bands. Hard for the people looking to get into his work to get a starting point. Worth saying that from everything I’ve seen of him, he’s a damn good bloke too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 11:46:30 GMT
Dont know too much about Colin other than.....
One hell of a nice bloke. True audio designer. Aint been in best of health lately. His Amps are top notch.
Wish he would join and keep us updated.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 12:07:35 GMT
I'd be careful with unsubstantiated assertions guys.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 7, 2018 12:50:34 GMT
I'd be careful with unsubstantiated assertions guys. Agreed. It’s not a subject I want discussed here because I want the focus to be on the gear, I’ve edited posts because there’s still lots of value without that one element. Colon is very welcome to join at any time.
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Post by savvypaul on Jul 7, 2018 13:03:55 GMT
I'd be careful with unsubstantiated assertions guys. Agreed. It’s not a subject I want discussed here because I want the focus to be on the gear, I’ve edited posts because there’s still lots of value without that one element. Colin is very welcome to join at any time. TIFTFY You made a bit of an arse of it, first time round...
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 7, 2018 13:12:16 GMT
FFS I shouldn’t be allowed out! I have a growing list of typos. Funniest is still probably when I sent a young and slender PA to my female boss a message saying “I know xxxx is incredibly bus(t)y so I thought I’d try you instead”. I heard them both laughing from 100 yards away. Then they sent it to everyone else
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Jul 7, 2018 13:36:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 13:36:25 GMT
Regarding the circuit for NVA amps. Someone once told me that it was based on a John Linsley Hood design. I don’t how true this is, or how the NVA amp circuit had evolved in recent times. Not according to RD, there is nothing in common with LH except they are both SS. Righto. Thanks for the correction.
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Post by savvypaul on Jul 10, 2018 9:55:06 GMT
Richard has posted this offer on his forum:
"As a gesture to English pride and Nationalism I will give a discount of 25% on ALL NVA product if England win the Football World Cup this summer, and a commiseration discount of 10% if they get into the final and lose. Discount will be applied for 24 hours (look at ebay if it happens) after the match. UK only."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 10:30:45 GMT
Why thanks for letting us know Paul, Smacks of desperation though, cause we all know Croatia will beat us Tomorrow,
Still nice gesture I suppose. 😁
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Post by savvypaul on Jul 10, 2018 10:37:14 GMT
Why thanks for letting us know Paul, Smacks of desperation though, cause we all know Croatia will beat us Tomorrow, Still nice gesture I suppose. 😁 No worries, Jez. They won't beat me...I'm not playing.
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Post by macca on Jul 10, 2018 11:24:45 GMT
What sort of attitude is that? We're all playing, metaphysically speaking. I've got pre - match nerves already, can't concentrate on my work.
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Post by savvypaul on Jul 10, 2018 11:29:15 GMT
What sort of attitude is that? We're all playing, metaphysically speaking. I've got pre - match nerves already, can't concentrate on my work. Humour. A (sort of) pun. I'll be excited about it by tomorrow. Get on with your work.
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Post by macca on Jul 10, 2018 12:02:26 GMT
Oh right. I thought for a minute you were one of those odd people who thinks it doesn't matter I'll at least pretend to be working, is that good enough?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 8:14:45 GMT
What sort of attitude is that? We're all playing, metaphysically speaking. I've got pre - match nerves already, can't concentrate on my work. One thing I like about the English is their ability to keep things in proportion and to remain pessimistic in the face of victory. We were out all day when England beat Sweden. We knew England had scored one goal, but weren't sure of the final result. On the way home we got chatting to a bloke at the station, and asked him how it had ended. 'We won, surprisingly' he said, adding, in a deadpan tone 'Football's coming home, you know'. His young son, aged 8 or so, said in a sardonic undertone 'It isn't really'. We watched the France/Belgium game last night. My wife wanted the Belgians to win because she hates the French, for reasons best known to herself.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 21:03:18 GMT
Richard has posted this offer on his forum: "As a gesture to English pride and Nationalism I will give a discount of 25% on ALL NVA product if England win the Football World Cup this summer, and a commiseration discount of 10% if they get into the final and lose. Discount will be applied for 24 hours (look at ebay if it happens) after the match. UK only." Double downer for anyone supporting England and wanting to buy NVA. No discount and no World Cup.
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